spa panel breaker tripping - new brew panel build

[kcinpdx]

Hi all- I'm building a 50 amp panel using the e-brew supply kit. As soon as I turn on the key to power up, the spa panel immediately trips. I changed the key switch an same thing. I took the key switch out of the circuit and nothing, so I'm left to believe that the issue is with the contactor or how it is wired. I tested the contactor and manually switched it and there is continuity, so I'm doubting that it is a faulty contactor. So looking at the contactor here, I have A2 to key switch, key switch to 2(hot), then A1 to the neutral bus. "4" is hot (red), 1 and 3 go to their respective red and black buses. As soon as the coil is activated, the spa panel trips. I'm at a loss....

 

[doug293cz]

Can you post some pics that show the wiring inside your spa panel, and also the wiring of the key switch and contactor. The pictures need to be adequate to trace where all of the important wires go. If we can't trace the wires, we can't figure out what might be wrong.

Brew on

 

[kcinpdx]

This will take some explaining.

 

[kcinpdx]

 

[kcinpdx]

I unwired everything except main power in to contactor, power to coil, and key switch to isolate the issue, hence the loose looking wires. None of them are live.

First pic - that is A1 tying in to common.
A2 goes to key switch *(white in this pic)
Key switch goes to Contactor - red wire from key switch and the black (6g) wire from main power hot going in to "2" labelled on the contactor.

As soon as power goes to the coil to activate the contactor, the breaker in the spa panel pops.

 

[redarmy990]

Not sure if this helps at all, I have the 30 amp panel and here’s the wiring.

hopefully it may help.

 

[doug293cz]

Need to see inside the spa panel as well. The problem may be there.

An unsolicited comment on wire colors: Hot wires should be red or black, even after going thru switches, all the way up to the load. L1 should always be one color, and L2 the other (doesn't matter which you choose to be which, just stay consistent.) White should only be used between the neutral bus and the neutral side of loads. Wiring should not be changed from red/black to white just by going thru a switch.

Brew on

 

[doug293cz]

Not sure if this helps at all, I have the 30 amp panel and here’s the wiring.

hopefully it may help.

This is not a picture of your panel, correct?

Brew on

 

[redarmy990]

This is not a picture of your panel, correct?

Brew on

Correct, i posted a pic of mine to try to help OP

 

[doug293cz]

Correct, i posted a pic of mine to try to help OP

Sorry, didn't notice the post was not from OP.

Brew on

 

[tmacd3]

I had an issue of an improperly wired white neutral wire in my spa panel. The electrician that put in the panel either missed it, or didn't do it properly. I had a 240V 50A contactor wired in as the main power switch in my brew panel, and this contactor coil was activated via 120V AC, using one hot leg of the main, and the neutral leg. When I would turn on the main power switch in my brew panel, that coil would go looking for that neutral, and the spa panel would rightfully detect a fault, and kick off. As doug said, post a picture of the inside of the spa panel.

Below picture shows the wiring of a spa panel, and you can see how the mains neutral and GFCI pigtail neutral tie into the neutral bus bar, and then the neutral white that you run from your spa panel to your brew panel, comes from the GFCI breaker itself, which you can see in middle right of the below picture, labeled "WHT (LOAD NEUTRAL)"

 

[superiorsat]

Hi all- I'm building a 50 amp panel using the e-brew supply kit. As soon as I turn on the key to power up, the spa panel immediately trips. I changed the key switch an same thing. I took the key switch out of the circuit and nothing, so I'm left to believe that the issue is with the contactor or how it is wired. I tested the contactor and manually switched it and there is continuity, so I'm doubting that it is a faulty contactor. So looking at the contactor here, I have A2 to key switch, key switch to 2(hot), then A1 to the neutral bus. "4" is hot (red), 1 and 3 go to their respective red and black buses. As soon as the coil is activated, the spa panel trips. I'm at a loss.... View attachment 713818

Your #2 and #4 are your L1 and L2 coming from your spa panel or internal breaker or distribution block. Your #3 and #4 are your output once your key is turned on. I have a 240v contactor so my A1 and A2 come off my master switch which sends L1 and L2 to engage the contactor. Thinking your set up would be send 1 of your 110 legs to A2 and A1 to neutral to engage your contactor.

 

[superiorsat]

Your #2 and #4 are your L1 and L2 coming from your spa panel or internal breaker or distribution block. Your #3 and #4 are your output once your key is turned on. I have a 240v contactor so my A1 and A2 come off my master switch which sends L1 and L2 to engage the contactor. Thinking your set up would be send 1 of your 110 legs to A2 and A1 to neutral. /QUOTE]

 

[superiorsat]

Hi all- I'm building a 50 amp panel using the e-brew supply kit. As soon as I turn on the key to power up, the spa panel immediately trips. I changed the key switch an same thing. I took the key switch out of the circuit and nothing, so I'm left to believe that the issue is with the contactor or how it is wired. I tested the contactor and manually switched it and there is continuity, so I'm doubting that it is a faulty contactor. So looking at the contactor here, I have A2 to key switch, key switch to 2(hot), then A1 to the neutral bus. "4" is hot (red), 1 and 3 go to their respective red and black buses. As soon as the coil is activated, the spa panel trips. I'm at a loss.... View attachment 713818

Don't know what happened on the last post looked like I was editing my other post. I have 2 of these controllers I built for future use. They are super basic but a can set a timer to turn on so when I'm ready to brew my strike water is ready to go and I run my pumps off of a separate gfci 110 circuit with remote control. If one goes down I can limp by with just one to finish a brew day.

 

[RufusBrewer]

I did not go through teh thread.

As a first thing to check. Did you confuse any Ground and Neutral connections? Double check for that.

 

[kcinpdx]

Thanks for the pic - I assume A1 and A2

I had an issue of an improperly wired white neutral wire in my spa panel. The electrician that put in the panel either missed it, or didn't do it properly. I had a 240V 50A contactor wired in as the main power switch in my brew panel, and this contactor coil was activated via 120V AC, using one hot leg of the main, and the neutral leg. When I would turn on the main power switch in my brew panel, that coil would go looking for that neutral, and the spa panel would rightfully detect a fault, and kick off. As doug said, post a picture of the inside of the spa panel.

Below picture shows the wiring of a spa panel, and you can see how the mains neutral and GFCI pigtail neutral tie into the neutral bus bar, and then the neutral white that you run from your spa panel to your brew panel, comes from the GFCI breaker itself, which you can see in middle right of the below picture, labeled "WHT (LOAD NEUTRAL)"

this makes sense. I’ll double check the spa panel tonight. Funny thing is the spa panel had been working with the hosehead controller for a while. There were occasions when it would trip though, so perhaps this is the culprit....

 

[kcinpdx]

Double checked the spa panel. It’s wired the same way as in the diagram above. Back to square one.

 

[doug293cz]

Double checked the spa panel. It’s wired the same way as in the diagram above. Back to square one.

How about a picture?

If you want to test the spa panel independent of the control panel, you can connect a 120V light bulb to first one hot and neutral, and then the other hot and neutral output of the spa panel. The bulb should light normally, and the GFCI should not trip. If the GFCI trips for either condition, the problem is in the spa panel.

Brew on

 

[kcinpdx]

picture forthcoming. What is the best way to test a contactor? I manually moved the switch and tested continuity across 1 and 2 with success, leading me to believe the contactor was fine.

 

[kcinpdx]

 

[doug293cz]

Spa panel is wired incorrectly. The load side neutral wire needs to connect directly to the GFCI breaker, not the neutral bus (where it connects now.) The proper connection for the load side neutral appears to be the bottom center terminal on your GFCI.

Your contactor is most likely fine.

Brew on

 

[kcinpdx]

Spa panel is wired incorrectly. The load side neutral wire needs to connect directly to the GFCI breaker, not the neutral bus (where it connects now.) The proper connection for the load side neutral appears to be the bottom center terminal on your GFCI.

Your contactor is most likely fine.

Brew on

Oh boy. That explains a lot. I’ll rewire it tonight and the panel. Thanks for the advice and I’ll keep folks posted.

 

[craigmw]

I had the same thought as Doug. You definitely need to have the neutral to your brew system connected to the neutral lug on the GFCI breaker. The white neutral coiled wire feeds neutral through the GFCI breaker, which is important for the breaker's ability to detect ground fault conditions. This is how I wired my 30A 240V circuit for my eBIAB panel inside a sub-panel. I'm using 10 gauge wire to feed the NEMA L15-30R outlet that I plug my eBIAB panel into. Note that both load wires AND the neutral wire that feed the outlet are connected to appropriate lugs on the 30A GFCI breaker. The beefy integral white neutral wire that feeds the GFCI breaker (equivalent to the coiled white wire on your GFCI) is connected to the neutral bus.

 

[kcinpdx]

Thanks all. On a more practical note, I could use some advice. The panel will operate a 2 x 5500 watt elements for a 1 bbl system. Both elements will be in the same kettle - similar to a BIAB although I’ll have a separate mash tun. So the question is should I set it up so that one switch can select off, on x1 and on x2, or have 2 separate on off switches? From a wiring standpoint I know there are differences, but in practical terms does it matter ?

 

[doug293cz]

Thanks all. On a more practical note, I could use some advice. The panel will operate a 2 x 5500 watt elements for a 1 bbl system. Both elements will be in the same kettle - similar to a BIAB although I’ll have a separate mash tun. So the question is should I set it up so that one switch can select off, on x1 and on x2, or have 2 separate on off switches? From a wiring standpoint I know there are differences, but in practical terms does it matter ?

The wiring for two separate switches is a bit simpler, and gives you the option to have "off", "left", "right", "both". With a three way switch you can only get "off", "left", "both".

Brew on