Sour Wort Technique Question

[jujitsudave]

Hello Everyone,

I recently watched the latest Basic Brewing video on youtube about their sour wort experiment. They inoculated with grain for a bit and then transferred into 1 gallons jugs, filled to the brim with wort and topped off with an airlock, then set them in an electric smoker at 120 for 2 days.They proceeded to boil etc. I was looking to try this but I dont have a smoker. I have come up with two ideas and wanted to get some advice on them.

1. Inspired by a post on pintrist, someone used their large boil kettle as a hot water bath, heated with a bucket heater and a ranco temp controller. They use this to maintain 120 degree for sour worting. Just not sure how safe this would be to leave unattended while at work etc

2. Ive read about reptile heaters and thought maybe fill the jug and top with an airlock then place in my extra 10 gallon igloo cooler. Using a reptile heater and a temp controller, would this get me into the temp range I needed? This seems to be the most often recommended reptile heater: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002AQCLO/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

If you think the reptile would be a better option, which size would you recommend? Thanks for the help everyone!

 

[chefchris]

how much wort do you plan on souring?

The few times I've done a sour wort I mashed/sparged as normal, then sanitized my mash tun and dumped the wort back in.

You could probably get away with option 1, but I wouldn't think you would need a temp controller. Just bring the water up to the correct temp and put your fermenter in. Check it in 6+ hours and if the temp has dropped simply heat the water back up. Of course if you already have the controller and bucket heater then go for it, put I think you could pull it off without it. You really just need to be somewhere in the 100-120F range so you've got plenty of wiggle room.

Do you have a CO2 tank? I would highly recommend flushing the head space at least twice a day if you have the equipment.

The heating pad should work, too. I've been looking into getting one for yogurt making and to help my beer finish out in these harsh Florida winters.

 

[jujitsudave]

Thanks for the reply. I have been hesitant with the mashtun idea because I do not have a CO2 tank. I should probably invest in one. I think the idea was that if you fill the fermenter up to the brim and insert the stopper/airlock, there is essentially no room for air to fit. I liked the idea of the reptile heater too, just not sure what size I would need.

 

[chefchris]

Saran wrap on top of the grain bed will help, too.

You could float a paper plate on top of the grains and throw one or two small pieces of dry ice in there. It would fill up the head space quite a bit and I don't think it would affect the temp that much. Just an idea.

 

[davejanssen]

The OP is talking about sour worting here and not sour mashing so there is no grain bed anymore.

Jujitsudave, transferring into small jugs sounds like a good plan. If you plan on inoculating with grain rather than a pure culture then you might get heterofermentative lacto, meaning that it will generate CO2. I'm not sure how fermentation temp influences the balance between lactic acid and ethanol/CO2 and in the sour mashes I've done with grain as the lacto source this has never been a problem, but you might want to allow for a small amount of head space if CO2 does get evolved. Also if you provide a good lacto pitch for sour worting then you don't need to keep the lacto fermentation that warm.

Old stock/the mad fermentationist has a nice post about sour worting. He used a heat pad and made a lacto starter from grain and then fermented the wort with lacto at around 80F.

http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2010/07/sour-old-ale-quick-oud-bruin.html

I've done this at ambient temp with a pitch of lacto brevis and it worked well. Here is my experience. I didn't start wit a big pitch so it took a while, but if you got it going with a strong pitch it would take a couple of days.

http://horscategoriebrewing.blogspot.ca/2014/09/sour-worted-soma.html

What is your plan overall for this beer?

 

[chefchris]

whoops, didn't mean to keep saying grain bed. I've never done a sour mash, only sour wort and I've used Brevis every time.

 

[jujitsudave]

Thanks for the write up davejanssen. I basically want to do the same thing, generate a method to make a quick tart beer with a technique that could be applied to just about any style of beer. I understand it won't be the complex flavors as would be expected from a long aged sour, but that's ok. I think your notes will really help, thanks!

 

[jujitsudave]

Thank you for all the feedback everyone. I finally got around to trying this sour wort method. I basically copied the recipe from the most recent Sour Wort Berliner Weiss on Basic Brewing's youtube videos. With the exception that I tried to sour with a pure commercial Lacto culture instead of the grain option. In retrospect, I think this might not have been the best option. I have read around on here and the Mad Fermentationist blog (Thanks Mike [Old Stock], your book is great by the way!) that the WhiteLabs WLP677 is a disappointing product, unfortunately this was already after I set the process up.

So some info on what has happened and where it is at. I took the advice from the Dr Lambic blog and lowered the pH a little with some food grade lactic acid to about 4.5 (supposedly the lower initial pH is better to fight bad bugs) and it has been cranking away with a fermwrap, temp controller, and in an extra 10 gallon cooler. By the way, this is a very easy way to maintain temps of 120 F easily for those who are interested. Day 2 of souring and the pH is at 4.0.

So my question is, is it likely that this will get into the range for a Berliner Weiss? (3.5, according to Dr Lambic). I know it is still early, but I believe Old Stock found this strain to never get the right acidity he was looking for in the past, right? I'll ride it out for a few more days, but in the future I may consider trying the Gigayeast brand. Supposedly its really good at fast souring. Thanks everyone!

 

[chefchris]

I've sour worted in the cooler a few times and it does work really well. This past time I did it in corny kegs so there's less worry about oxygen.

I've heard the same about WLP677, I've only used it once and it worked out fine for me. Didn't sour wort with it though, I think you might have better luck with it that way. It may take you 4+ days to get there.

I've been really happy with L. Brevis and I just got in a lacto blend from Omega Labs that every one is raving about.

Keep us updated!