Sour cider w/ Wicked Weed and D9 dregs -- add sacch too?

[TandemTails]

I'm pressing some apples for cider tonight and plan on setting aside one gallon as an experiment. A few months ago I saved the dregs from a Wicked Weed Bombadile (Brett) and a D9 Systema Naturae (lacto + wild yeast).

I made a starter yesterday with 15g DME and 200mL water and pitched the dregs. About 24 hours later and there's absolutely no activity. I feel like I should have seen at least a little action from the wild yeasts but there isn't anything visible.

Do you think the dregs were pasteurized or should I just pitch it into the cider anyway with some sacch and let it ride?

From the respective beer websites:
D9 Systema Naturae -- "Systema Naturae (System of Nature) is an exploration of scientific processes and ingredients exhibited throughout the natural world. This addition to the series, Devilwood & Apricots, blends the sweet aroma of Devilwood Blossoms with the musk and tartness of Apricots. Fermented with wild lactobacillus and wild yeast. Naturally conditioned."

Wicked Weed Bombadile -- "The Florida forest is a fight for life from undergrowth to treetop.
The woodland encircles itself, squelching sections as others grab
hold and flourish. The live oak observes this scramble from its
perch of power and permanence. Amidst the hurricanes and heat
waves, the alligators and oranges, emerges the true crimson crown
of our southern peninsula. Ripened and radiant from the Florida
sunshine, the strawberry is king of this bountiful land. Bombadile
is a Brettanomyces farmhouse ale fermented with a half pound
per gallon of ripe Florida strawberries and delicately aged in a
French oak foeder."

Now I can't find any information about whether or not WW pasteurizes the bottles or not. I thought they mostly leave them to bottle condition but i'm not sure about this one.

 

[drgonzo2k2]

So a few things here...

First, be patient when stepping up dregs. They've been dormant for quite some time, so don't be surprised if they take longer than you expect to start doing their thing. I've stepped up lots of dregs and sometimes have not seen any activity whatsoever for 3-4 days or more. Also, keep in mind that with that little wort and low OG there's not a lot of fermentation to happen, so you could possibly miss the entire thing.

Second, Brett is not going to make anything sour. It might make it funky, barnyardy, horse blankety, pineappley, etc., but it is not going to produce a sourness.

Third, the malic acid naturally found in cider is perceived as more tart than the lactic acid you are trying to produce by introducing LAB to your cider. You are going to induce a malolactic fermentation which will essentially "soften" the tartness of your cider. If you're used to using LAB in beer making you will wind up with a different result in cider making.

 

[SanPancho]

Second, Brett is not going to make anything sour.

depends on your definition of sour. brett can kick out acetic. a different kind of sour than lactic, but still sour. it isnt a defining characteristic, but there are quite a few bretts that produce what is commonly referred to as "tart" flavors. obviously not as crazy sour as lacto/pedio can get, but i think most folks put "tart" in the general category of sour. but as for making a "sour apple" type cider, yeah, it wont happen with brett alone.

no idea how to increase malic other than just buying it at the shop and adding it to taste?

if anyone else knows how to do it please chime in, a sour apple cider sounds pretty damn good.

 

[drgonzo2k2]

Ahhh, sure, I try to make a distinction between tart and sour beers.

That being said I have used 100% Brett fermentations for cider and produced some really good results.

Definitely nothing that I would call sour, but it's really great when some of the pineapple/funky flavors come through.

 

[TandemTails]

Thanks for the clarifications. after about 48 hours fermentation kicked up pretty well. I set aside a gallon of fresh pressed juice that had 3oz of maltodextrin added to it. I just added a campden tablet and will pitch the starter tomorrow.

What temperature would you recommend fermenting at? I don't know what the 'wild yeast' from the Systema Naturae is so I was planning on letting it sit in my fermentation chamber at 64'F for at least a week or two with the rest of my cider and cyser.