Sour Beer Bottling Process Question

[SourLover]

I’m posting this here because I think I will get a better response from the sour beer group than if I posted it in the bottling section.

I bottled a mango sour a little over a month ago. I took some of one of my 9 month old, 5 gallon sour base beers and racked one gallon of it over mango. I did add a small amount of Red Star wine yeast to the one gallon fermenter. The base beer was 1.000, and within three weeks the mango beer had the right flavor and was 1.000. At bottling, I individual primed bottles with corn sugar to hit 3.5 volumes using the priming sugar calculator on Brewers Friend, which was 8.9 grams per 750ml bottle. I mixed the corn sugar with a small amount of water, heated it up, cooled it slightly, and added it individually to the bottles before filling. I also added a small amount of the rehydrated Red Star wine yeast to each bottle during the filling process.

The bottles have been stored in the 60-70 degree range at my office. I tried one bottle the other day and it didn’t seem to be carbonated properly.

I see the cause as one of three things.

1.) Leaking cap
2.) Not enough time
3.) Problem with my bottling process

Based on the fact that the beer refermented in three weeks I think I should be able to eliminate number two.

If it is number one, that is easy to correct, but if it is number three I may need some help.

Does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions on my process? Is their something I could be doing differently?

 

[Gnomebrewer]

When you say it wasn't carbonated properly, was there any noticeable carbonation, or was it flat?
I've bottled all of my long-aged sours in a similar way (some up to nearly 18 months old) and they've all been carbonated.

 

[AMessenger]

I would bet #2. I would think you‘d be able to see the priming sugar with a gravity reading if that were the case though. You might give a reading a try

The priming of individual bottles seems like a process where I would screw things up but I’ve managed to screw up the bulk priming I prefer as well (on more than one occasion)

 

[cactusgarrett]

i would guess #2 also. You didn't go into your souring process, so i can't tell if you mean "wild" sour or "lactic" sour. If it's lactic sour, and the pH is incredibly low (making the beer tart), the environment could be very harsh for yeast to operate. It'll take a longer amount of time than a clean beer to carb up. If you routinely have this issue, consider using Go-Ferm in your bottling process or look into an acid-shock starter.

 

[SourLover]

First off, let me say thanks for all of the input. Every time I ask a question on here I end up learning something new that I wasn’t expecting.

When you say it wasn't carbonated properly, was there any noticeable carbonation, or was it flat?
I've bottled all of my long-aged sours in a similar way (some up to nearly 18 months old) and they've all been carbonated.

It didn’t seem carbonated at all to me. My fiancé thought that it had a little carbonation. That is why I thought it might be a leaking cap.

I would bet #2. I would think you‘d be able to see the priming sugar with a gravity reading if that were the case though. You might give a reading a try

The priming of individual bottles seems like a process where I would screw things up but I’ve managed to screw up the bulk priming I prefer as well (on more than one occasion)

I’m hoping it is #2 also. If the next one isn’t carbonated I will definitely take a gravity reading. I never even though of doing that. I messed up a bulk priming big time, and I’m trying not to take any chances with these beers that sit for months and months. It’s a little more work, but the results so far have been good.

i would guess #2 also. You didn't go into your souring process, so i can't tell if you mean "wild" sour or "lactic" sour. If it's lactic sour, and the pH is incredibly low (making the beer tart), the environment could be very harsh for yeast to operate. It'll take a longer amount of time than a clean beer to carb up. If you routinely have this issue, consider using Go-Ferm in your bottling process or look into an acid-shock starter.

This beer was brewed on 2-8-20, with an OG of 1.050. It had some mango goodbelly to start with. Primary fermentation was WLP001. It was at 1.010 when I added WLP653. In late March I added some bottle dregs from two Russian River beers (Sanctification and Supplication).

I’ve read a bit about acid shock starters. I’m trying not to spend too much time on beer, but if that ends up being what it takes I’ll have to do.

I hadn’t heard of Go-Ferm. I just read about it really quickly. It looks like I would use this with the wine yeast. It appears I’d start the Go-Ferm, then add the wine yeast, then temper that solution with some of the beer I’m bottling, and then from there I would individually prime the bottles. Am I on the right track? What is your process for using the Go-Ferm?


As a side note, are any of you guys bottling sours with a cork and cage or a cork and cap? I posted something in the bottling section, but haven’t received any feedback.

 

[cactusgarrett]

Yeah, I used to do acid shock starters with good results. But then I read a number of accounts of pro brewers simply using Go-Ferm and I gave it a shot. Much easier & quicker than the acid shock starter process, and I've had very good results - enough to make it my go-to for bottling sours. Personally, I get the yeast rehydrating (i use CBC-1) and separately rehydrate the Go-Ferm by adding 1.25g in 17mL water per 1g of rehydration yeast. I then mix the Go-Ferm in with the yeast, and add that, as well as the priming sugar solution, to the bottling bucket. I read about those Go-Ferm measurements online from official instructions (somewhere?).

 

[goodolarchie]

+1 on give it more time. Also 60 to 70 degree range is quite a lot. If it's at 70, I'd expect to be 90% of the way there or more, at 60, who knows. If it cools overnight the yeast may go dormant. I keep my bottled sour stuff in a 72F closet for two weeks, agitating them once on day 2-3, then move them to the 60 degree cellar to age at least 6 weeks before opening one. Though with brett and funky stuff, 12 weeks is really where they start to shine, and 6 months is $$ especially on a young (< 1yr base beer).

As a side note, are any of you guys bottling sours with a cork and cage or a cork and cap? I posted something in the bottling section, but haven’t received any feedback.

Yep! I have done both pretty extensively. IMO it makes bottling day way more fun, and quality corks can really aid in aging beers that are sitting at 3.5 - 4.0 volumes. Also, my fairly expensive bench capper likes to break bottles every so often, so I only straight up cap enough beers to enter in competition. Feel free to ask any questions here.

 

[SourLover]

Yeah, I used to do acid shock starters with good results. But then I read a number of accounts of pro brewers simply using Go-Ferm and I gave it a shot. Much easier & quicker than the acid shock starter process, and I've had very good results - enough to make it my go-to for bottling sours. Personally, I get the yeast rehydrating (i use CBC-1) and separately rehydrate the Go-Ferm by adding 1.25g in 17mL water per 1g of rehydration yeast. I then mix the Go-Ferm in with the yeast, and add that, as well as the priming sugar solution, to the bottling bucket. I read about those Go-Ferm measurements online from official instructions (somewhere?).

cactusgarrett thanks for the information on your process. I am trying to avoid the acid shock starter at all costs. Your numbers are exactly what I read/watched the other day. The Go-Ferm product is so inexpensive that it is definitely worth a try. I've got it on the list for my next order. Thanks again for the information.

+1 on give it more time. Also 60 to 70 degree range is quite a lot. If it's at 70, I'd expect to be 90% of the way there or more, at 60, who knows. If it cools overnight the yeast may go dormant. I keep my bottled sour stuff in a 72F closet for two weeks, agitating them once on day 2-3, then move them to the 60 degree cellar to age at least 6 weeks before opening one. Though with brett and funky stuff, 12 weeks is really where they start to shine, and 6 months is $$ especially on a young (< 1yr base beer).

This is good to hear. Thanks for the detailed information. My office is probably in the 60-70 degree range depending on if people are here or not, so that is definitely a factor I wasn't taking into account. It sounds like I need to give it more time at my office to start with (maybe 3-4 weeks). When I bring the beers back up to where I brew, the room temperature in the beer room hovers around 55 - 62 degrees depending on the time of the year, and if we are there or not. I've got plenty to drink, so I just need to let them sit.

Yep! I have done both pretty extensively. IMO it makes bottling day way more fun, and quality corks can really aid in aging beers that are sitting at 3.5 - 4.0 volumes. Also, my fairly expensive bench capper likes to break bottles every so often, so I only straight up cap enough beers to enter in competition. Feel free to ask any questions here.

I didn't see this post until I finished with the one in the bottling section. I did ask one question on that one, and I will ask it here as well.
This is probably a stupid question, but what do you do about leaving headspace in the bottle? If I use my bottle filler like I normally do, the headspace will be taken up by the cork. I'm guessing I'd just eye it, and stop filling at a certain point to account for the difference in headspace? Is there a better way than what I've mentioned?

 

[goodolarchie]

This is probably a stupid question, but what do you do about leaving headspace in the bottle? If I use my bottle filler like I normally do, the headspace will be taken up by the cork. I'm guessing I'd just eye it, and stop filling at a certain point to account for the difference in headspace? Is there a better way than what I've mentioned?

I got you on the other thread so others can find it...

 

[dawn_kiebawls]

subscribing for future references

 

[pursuit0fhoppiness]

OP if you see this, did it carbonate with time? Was going to ask if you gently stirred the priming sugar with a sanitized mash paddle or something.

 

[SourLover]

OP if you see this, did it carbonate with time? Was going to ask if you gently stirred the priming sugar with a sanitized mash paddle or something.

Yes, the beer finally carbonated. It just needed a little more time at the proper temperature. I don't do any stirring of priming sugar anymore as I individually prime every bottle. It definitely takes longer, but I like the results.

For the past 5 months or so I've been using a bottling yeast and Go-Ferm mixture as suggested by cactusgarrett in Post #6, and it has been very successful. Each bottle gets an individual dose of sugar, and after filling, each bottle gets a couple of milliliters of the yeast/Go Ferm mixture. I've also started including one 500ml plastic bottle with each bottled batch so that I know when the batch is carbonated and can be moved from my office back to the 60 degree area for final storage/consumption.

 

[Brewbuzzard]

How long has it been bottle conditioning? If it's a cap then the next one should be ok. When you say you heated the water then cooled a bit are you sure you cooled it enough?