Sour Beer 2 Plans - need advice

[Crispyvelo]

I've recently been getting into sour beers. I have been loving trying different sours from all over the world and expanding my palate. I read Michael Tonsmeire's American Sours book which added further motivation to start building my "sour pipeline".

Here's where I'm at now....

Sour Beer #1 (modeled after New Belgium's sour brown Oscar base beer which is used in La Folie)
Brew date (Aug 2015)
- 79.1% Pale 2-row
- 8.8% Munich 10L
- 8.8% Crystal 80L
- 2.2% Carapils
- 1.1% Chocolate

Mashed @153F for 60 w/ double batch sparge. 1 hour boil.

Hallertau (4AA) @ 60min
Hallertau (4AA) @ 30min

One French oak stave.

Roeselare yeast/bug blend

Aging in a 5-gal glass carboy.

IBU - 10.25
OG - 1.05 (terrible efficiency...should be better next time)
FG (as of last month) - 1.002

-----

I'm about to brew a Westy Blond with WLP530. I also just ordered Funk Weapon #1 from Bootleg Biology (first time trying them).

Soooo, my question is this. Which of these options would you go with for Sour Beer #2:

Option 1 - Brew the same Sour Beer #1 recipe, but replace the the Roeselare with Funk Weapon #1 + US-05 sacch.
Advantage: All variables controlled to isolate and learn what the different yeast/bugs do.

Option 2 - Brew the same Sour Beer #1 recipe, but pitch WLP530 cake + Funk Weapon #1.
Advantage: Might get some interesting flavors with this combination. Also nice to get more life out of the WLP530. This would be a learning experience, as I've never pitched a new brew on a yeast cake before.

Option 3 - Different base beer, pitch Funk Weapon #1 + some other saccharomyces.
Advantage: More flexibility. Might be nice to do a saison or Belgian Blond so that I have one 'light' sour and one 'brown' sour going in the pipeline. Possible blending options too?

Which direction would you go?

Thanks!
Chris

 

[Crispyvelo]

Where are my sour heads? Maybe you're drinking'...

 

[m00ps]

I would do a light sour saison. Ive done stuff from black tripels and saisons to very light ones and I generally like the lighter belgian based sours the most.

 

[Crispyvelo]

I would do a light sour saison. Ive done stuff from black tripels and saisons to very light ones and I generally like the lighter belgian based sours the most.

Thanks for your thoughts! Im leaning that way as well.

 

[fuzzy2133]

I am at the same point with you Crispyvelo.

My plan is your Option 2 - Many people have said that generation 2 of commercial strains are better than the first.

 

[BGBC]

This thread might get more traction in the Lambic/Wild Brewing section.

Funk Weapon is just brett, so it won't be particularly sour on it's own without either lacto or pedio (which you have in the Roeselare blend). That said, I'd use the 530 cake (or a new saison yeast) for a simple saison/blonde grist and pitch the funk weapon after primary fermentation is complete.

Have you sampled the first beer recently? Many people complain that Roeselare isn't that sour/interesting on the first pitch. If it's a little lackluster, pitching some commercial sour dregs could help it out. I'm also curious how much oak you have in there and how you treated it.

 

[hopbrad]

if you can, brew 10 gallons. 5 gallons use the cake from your first Sour. 2nd Generation of Roeselare will be more complex and will sour faster. then 5 gallons with your 530 and funk weapon.

I did a flanders red, then reused the cake on a blonde/saison beer base. 70/30 pils/wheat. also added in a super small amount of slurry of belgian yeast as the Roeselare cake was 8+ months old.

 

[Crispyvelo]

This thread might get more traction in the Lambic/Wild Brewing section.

Funk Weapon is just brett, so it won't be particularly sour on it's own without either lacto or pedio (which you have in the Roeselare blend). That said, I'd use the 530 cake (or a new saison yeast) for a simple saison/blonde grist and pitch the funk weapon after primary fermentation is complete.

Have you sampled the first beer recently? Many people complain that Roeselare isn't that sour/interesting on the first pitch. If it's a little lackluster, pitching some commercial sour dregs could help it out. I'm also curious how much oak you have in there and how you treated it.

Hi @BGBC,

Thanks for the reply! To my first sour beer, I added dregs from a few commercial sours just to make it more dynamic. I sampled it @3 months, and it was coming along great! On the nose - fruity and sweet, almost like crushed up sweet tart candy, hint of oak, and a little rubberband. The nose alone, sets your expectations that you're going to get punched in the face with sour, but on the palate it's pleasantly tart and complex. I threw in a new oak stave right at the beginning, without doing any particular treatment. I might have given it a minute or two in Starsan before I used it.

Question for you - why not pitch the Funk Weapon at the beginning with the 530 cake?

 

[Crispyvelo]

if you can, brew 10 gallons. 5 gallons use the cake from your first Sour. 2nd Generation of Roeselare will be more complex and will sour faster. then 5 gallons with your 530 and funk weapon.

I did a flanders red, then reused the cake on a blonde/saison beer base. 70/30 pils/wheat. also added in a super small amount of slurry of belgian yeast as the Roeselare cake was 8+ months old.

Thanks @Hopbrad!

How did that second beer turn out? I've only got an 8 gallon kettle, so I don't have the capacity to brew 10 gallons right now, and my wife will physically harm me if I tried to do two 5 gallon batches in a single day...

 

[BGBC]

Is it an oak spiral? How big is it? Sorry, don't mean to get hung up on this, but when I think stave, I'm picturing something large and get concerned about over-oaking.

If you want the traditional funky brett characteristics, adding it to secondary is the way to go, IMHO. The brett can transform some of the byproducts of the initial sacch fermentation when added after primary. You could probably add it at the beginning with the 530 too though - the 530 should out compete the brett, then the brett should keep going longer. No right answer - could split the batch and experiment with both processes.

 

[Crispyvelo]

Is it an oak spiral? How big is it? Sorry, don't mean to get hung up on this, but when I think stave, I'm picturing something large and get concerned about over-oaking.

I can't remember what brand it was, but it was specifically for a 5-gallon batch, like this - http://www.winestix.com/beerstix-american-oak-carboy-for-brewing/

I thought about waiting, then just using it for the last month or so, but then decided that I would throw it from the beginning. I figured I could taste it along the way and pull it out when it was "oaky" enough.

 

[hopbrad]

Thanks @Hopbrad!

How did that second beer turn out? I've only got an 8 gallon kettle, so I don't have the capacity to brew 10 gallons right now, and my wife will physically harm me if I tried to do two 5 gallon batches in a single day...

its still going, about 6-7 months at this point, split it up and added raspberries about 2 months ago to half of it. samples are more sour then the 1st generation flanders which is about 14 months at this point. about to bottle both in the next month or so.