Something is plaguing my beer

[Sixmilecross]

Something has been plaguing a few of my batches and I have no idea what the problem is. 3 of my last six or seven batches have all kicked off with great fermentation and no signs of contamination - no white bubbly filmy "skin" on top but healthy looking/smelling krausen. The first time this happened, I was bottling, while the next 2 were kegged. The first time the beer went into the bottles what I thought looked relatively clear but came out cloudy and stinking of pineapple, and the taste was sourish. The second time it came out the keg smelling and tasting the same, and the third time I could distinctly smell pineapple when opening the fermentor and it seems to be developing the same taste as it sits in the keg.

So I consulted the pdf at more beer and right away it says the smell of pineapple is a result of oxidation. Sounds cut and dry except this doesn't make sense give the circumstances, ie the beer smelled like pineapple prior to racking to the keg, which means it would have had to occur sometime between pitching the yeast and kegging....but aerating the wort prior to pitching is necessary and doesn't cause these kinds of problems. So what could it be?

I'm thinking it may just be something with the fermentor, but I'm surprised that there have been no signs of infection and all fermentations have smelled great. It could be the tubing, but then other batches that I've brewed would also have been contaminated.

Any help is much appreciated!

 

[ballsy]

How do you control ferment temps, also were the same yeasts used for each? We're starters done?

sent from Galaxy S4 after a few beers using homebrew talk app

 

[Adam_Selene]

Something has been plaguing a few of my batches and I have no idea what the problem is. 3 of my last six or seven batches have all kicked off with great fermentation and no signs of contamination - no white bubbly filmy "skin" on top but healthy looking/smelling krausen. The first time this happened, I was bottling, while the next 2 were kegged. The first time the beer went into the bottles what I thought looked relatively clear but came out cloudy and stinking of pineapple, and the taste was sourish. The second time it came out the keg smelling and tasting the same, and the third time I could distinctly smell pineapple when opening the fermentor and it seems to be developing the same taste as it sits in the keg.

So I consulted the pdf at more beer and right away it says the smell of pineapple is a result of oxidation. Sounds cut and dry except this doesn't make sense give the circumstances, ie the beer smelled like pineapple prior to racking to the keg, which means it would have had to occur sometime between pitching the yeast and kegging....but aerating the wort prior to pitching is necessary and doesn't cause these kinds of problems. So what could it be?

I'm thinking it may just be something with the fermentor, but I'm surprised that there have been no signs of infection and all fermentations have smelled great. It could be the tubing, but then other batches that I've brewed would also have been contaminated.

Any help is much appreciated!

Temprature? Methyl butyrate?
Another possibility, have you been useing the same sanitizer forever? Other than pitching too hot, or a gradual but large increas in temprature, this sounds like a mild (anarobic?) infection. You might be breeding resistant bacteria somewhere in your system. That it comes on gradualy makes me suspect the seccondary. Nuke everything with strong caustic if you have it, then switch to a sanitizer that goes in the oposet direction on the ph scale.

--Adam Selene

 

[Sixmilecross]

Starters were done for the first two batches (saisons) while the third I just dumped in (saw activity that night). Definitely two different yeasts were used, but can't recall if the Saisons used the same. It may have been 3 different yeasts. Temps have sat between low 60s and high 60s, maybe peaked at 72 - which for saisons and one hefe should be fine. I doubt it was a matter of yeast as the flavors and smell were the same for all three, and all 3 came out cloudy which was not how they went into the fermentor.

The sanitizer (starsan) I have been using for some time but didn't think that was the issue as a number of other batches in between have come out fine, plus it's been foaming up nicely - not that that's a sure sign. It's usually one batch bad, one or two good, then another bad - which is why I'm leaning towards something being wrong with the fermentor itself. I haven't used secondary for any of these beers. The first two were 4-6 week primaries and then bottle and keg respectively, while the third was 2 week primary and keg.

Is there anything you could recommend as a strong caustic? I was thinking maybe one step instead of starsan? I know there is concern using starsan with kegging.

 

[novahokie09]

Sodium hydroxide, Lye, is a strong caustic. Use extreme caution if you use it.

Starsan is an acidic sanitizer.

 

[BBL_Brewer]

You can rule out the star san, it won't cause any problems...kegging or otherwise. You didn't say what kind of fermentor you were using, I assume plastic? If that's the case I would start with a new fermentor and see if that helps, maybe even some new tubing (although I really doubt it's the tubing). Cheap fix if that's the problem.

 

[Sixmilecross]

Sorry, the fermentor is a plastic bucket. I have two other plastic carboys and another plastic bucket so will stick with them for now and see if that fixes it. I also bought a scrubbing brush for the tubing and went to town on them last night just in case. I suppose I could keep the one bucket around four sours and the like, but not sure how much it would get used even then. Unless I finally find a recipe for Six Point's Apollo.

 

[Braufessor]

I also bought a scrubbing brush for the tubing and went to town on them last night just in case.

I would be careful with that - sounds like a good way to scratch up the inside of your tubing and spread an infection further.

THe first thing I would do is throw my tubing out, and buy new tubing - that is one of the prime locations for infections and it is cheap to replace.

Likewise, make sure you are not "scouring" or "scratching" your buckets while cleaning.

Other places to check/consider - spigots and bottle fillers and auto siphons - make sure you are taking them completely apart, cleaning thoroughly and sanitizing thoroughly.

Make sure you are cleaning very well with PBW or Oxy clean and rinsing well. Then, make sure you are sanitizing with Star San and not rinsing. Do not replace star san with one step.

Are the 3 beers you had problems with the two saisons and a hefe?? what were the beers that turned out well? Just thinking those two styles can throw some weird odors and flavors under normal circumstances......

 

[CB_in_Tokyo]

I have had pineapple smells that were infections. I tried to culture a Chimay yeast, and one of the starters developed a white film that I decided to pitch anyway. It looks like you have two fermenters, and half your batches have a problem. Does the problem only occur with one fermenter?

 

[ballsy]

Agree with taking bucket out that u are fermenting those with (if a certain one was used for those) and replace tubing. The fact that happened with keg as well nixes the bottle filler/spigot etc...DEFINITELY agree with no scouring/ aggressive brushing. I don't use carboys, and oxyfree with a palm of hand rub on the bucket is plenty to clean. Can't remember if u t-fer to secondary but wouldn't do that if so.

sent from Galaxy S4 after a few beers using homebrew talk app

 

[Sixmilecross]

I would be careful with that - sounds like a good way to scratch up the inside of your tubing and spread an infection further.

The brush is sold as a tube cleaner brush by Annapolis Homebrew, so I'd hope they aren't selling me something that would destroy the inside of my tubing.

THe first thing I would do is throw my tubing out, and buy new tubing - that is one of the prime locations for infections and it is cheap to replace.

Likewise, make sure you are not "scouring" or "scratching" your buckets while cleaning.

Make sure you are cleaning very well with PBW or Oxy clean and rinsing well. Then, make sure you are sanitizing with Star San and not rinsing. Do not replace star san with one step.

I've always washed with hot water, dish soap and a sponge immediately after racking and haven't had problems for a year. I supposed I may have used the rough side of the sponge a few times which may have scratched the bucket but it seems doubtful. I've always stayed away from Oxyclean because that damn film it leaves takes forever to come off.

Are the 3 beers you had problems with the two saisons and a hefe?? what were the beers that turned out well? Just thinking those two styles can throw some weird odors and flavors under normal circumstances......

I am absolutely positive that it had nothing to do with yeast flavors or ferm temps.

Does the problem only occur with one fermenter?

I've sidelined the fermenter that it last occurred. I didn't note the fermenters the other two times it happened unfortunately, but it seems very on and off. I have two other batches in primary, so if they come out tainted as well, then I definitely know it's the tubing, or at least that it's also involved - though I'll likely just replace that anyways.

Just damn frustrating.

 

[Garagebrewski]

Control your temps better. Change yeast


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[Sixmilecross]

this has nothing to do with temps or yeast. All 3 batches used different strains of yeast and all temps were well within ranges if not on the lower side

 

[BBL_Brewer]

I have a question. What does your star san look like when you make it up? Is it clear or cloudy? I used to use tap water to make mine up and the water is so hard that the solution would be instantly cloudy (which is less effective than clear). I use RO water now and it makes a huge difference. Also, what contact time are you giving it? The bottle says either 1-2 minutes or more than 1 minute. Some brewers swear that it only takes like 30 seconds, but I always allow plenty of contact time. Two minutes is my norm for most things, but I allow three minutes for fermentors. The more the merrier if you're having infection problems.

 

[Sixmilecross]

It's always clear when I make it. If I use it heavily over the next weeks it clouds up, but regardless I always make a new batch come brew time. Contact time for things like tubing and auto siphon are for the length of brewing. I throw everything in and let it sit. With the bucket, I fill a spray with some solution and spray down the inside and pour off the excess. Then I cover it with the lid and let it sit until pitching time.

 

[BBL_Brewer]

Well, sounds like sanitation isn't the problem. Just a thought.

 

[Savage06]

Do you do all grain, if so water that is very basic can cause issues with cloudiness. If you can try to get more info and dial in your PH.

As for the funky smell I agree with everybody nix all of the tubing and that fermentor

 

[IslandLizard]

How is the beer straight from the fermentor (bucket)? Is it sour/pineapple? If it happens later it is something in your racking or packaging line.

Replace tubes. You can always keep the old ones for sours when you grow into them or other projects.
Clean thoroughly or replace siphon, racking cane, bottling wand, spigot on bottling bucket (the 2 large barrels come apart after soaking in very hot water).
Keg what you want, but also bottle some (from fermentor, not keg), so you can narrow down possible packaging problems.
Do you take your kegs' diptubes and posts apart and clean and sanitize them? That long hose brush is good for diptubes too.

Good luck on your next brew, don't give up.

 

[Sixmilecross]

I do all grain but haven't had issues with clarity from my water unless this infection hits, which is usually the tell tale sign to me - cloudiness, pineapple smell, and sour taste.

I just put an order through for a new siphon, tubing and bucket so hopefully this takes care of it. Now I just hope I struck good luck with my Scottish Ale and Synchronicity Saison - which I had to open ferment.

 

[Sixmilecross]

How is the beer straight from the fermentor (bucket)? Is it sour/pineapple? If it happens later it is something in your racking or packaging line.

Replace tubes. You can always keep the old ones for sours when you grow into them or other projects.
Clean thoroughly or replace siphon, racking cane, bottling wand, spigot on bottling bucket (the 2 large barrels come apart after soaking in very hot water).
Keg what you want, but also bottle some (from fermentor, not keg), so you can narrow down possible packaging problems.
Do you take your kegs' diptubes and posts apart and clean and sanitize them? That long hose brush is good for diptubes too.

Good luck on your next brew, don't give up.

The first time it happened, I didn't 'notice' until after bottling, but I think I was more in denial. The second time I noticed prior to bottling and the third I noticed prior to kegging but kegged anyway just in case it was just the yeast. but the taste and smell are indistinguishable.

Even if the other two batches in primary somehow make it unscathed, I'll still be replacing the tubes/siphon. Going to upsize too so transferring doesn't take as long.

I take the diptube and posts apart each time I change the keg. Usually soak in hot soapy water, rinsed, and then into Star San. The dip tube hasn't had anything through it yet besides hot water, but the problem occurs before that. Although with my new brush ill be giving it a light scrub before sanitizing and reapplying the keg lube.

 

[ballsy]

I have a question. What does your star san look like when you make it up? Is it clear or cloudy? I used to use tap water to make mine up and the water is so hard that the solution would be instantly cloudy (which is less effective than clear). I use RO water now and it makes a huge difference. Also, what contact time are you giving it? The bottle says either 1-2 minutes or more than 1 minute. Some brewers swear that it only takes like 30 seconds, but I always allow plenty of contact time. Two minutes is my norm for most things, but I allow three minutes for fermentors. The more the merrier if you're having infection problems.

To clarify and prevent confusion from others reading, the "if it's cloudy it's no good" theory re: star san is not true. It comes down to what the pH is reading...if above 3-3.5 then u should mix a new batch. Saying cloudy is less effective than clear is simply not true.

White Dog Brewery