zodiak3000
Well-Known Member
i will be adding bourbon soaked oak chips to an RIS. some say to drain out the bourbon and just add the chips due to the extracted tannin's. some say to just dump the whole thing in no prob. opinions?
soaking oak chips in bourbon, discard bourbon or add all?
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How long are you soaking them? If you soak them for over a couple of weeks then I would toss the bourbon out. If you are just soaking them a couple of days and want a nice big bourbon profile throw it in. The thing about adding bourbon is you can't take it back out once you have added it, but it doesn't need to age with the beer to have a big impact on the flavor profile. Just keep that in mind when adding it. It will tone down a little with age though if you do end up adding too much.
Cheers
Jay
Cheers
Jay
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zodiak3000
Well-Known Member
prob gonna soak 2oz for a few weeks. thinking about discarding soaked bourbon, then adding back a small amount as a top off before adding it to the beer. i plan on no more than 7 days contact time with the chips/beer.
Thats a good plan. Keep us posted. I LOVE a bourbon barrel age beer!
Don't dump the bourbon! the thing no-one remembers here is that not only are the chips soaking up the bourbon,but the bourbon is also soaking the resins out of the wood! So dump the bourbon,dump the oak flavor. Ever soak some wood chunks in water to toss on the coals in the bbq pit? Ever notice that if they soak too long,the water starts turning brown? That's the resins,& thusly flavor soaking out of the wood.
So I pour it all through a hop sock into secondary,tie off the bag of chips,& drop it in. Rack the beer onto the chips & liquid. 7-8 days is usually plenty,but adjust it to your tastes.
So I pour it all through a hop sock into secondary,tie off the bag of chips,& drop it in. Rack the beer onto the chips & liquid. 7-8 days is usually plenty,but adjust it to your tastes.
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zodiak3000
Well-Known Member
what about nasty tannin's?
I think for your timeframe you'd likely be ok. Soaking for a month or so, then I'd start worrying about that I would think.
Since chips have more surface area than cubes,they work a bit faster. 7-8 days should do it. And no worry of tannins. Tannin extraction comes from a lot of time,which we aren't taking with chips.
Without a doubt!!!
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zodiak3000
Well-Known Member
cool thanks for replies. looks like ill soak chips in bourbon for 7-10 days and add the whole thing for 7 days in fermenter.
Just soaking them in an airtight container in the fridge during primary is good. Then a week in sedcondary & tastes for oak/bourbon level. Easy.
Summers
Well-Known Member
Sorry to bring up an old thread but I had a question about the length of time that one could leave an RIS on cubes, I has a plan to soak the cubes for about 2 months. I have 2 oz. of American oak and plan to soak then for only 48 hr on 8oz of bourbon then add all of it the secondary and rack on top and I wanted to leave it on the cubes for the entire two months. Do you think that this might be too long of period to age the RIS on the oak cubes?
Interesting, I've been using spiral oak sticks. Just aged an IPA for almost 2 months before it had the bourbon flavor I was looking for. Then dry hopped for a week after the bourbon flavor was right. Chips only take a week!? I could kick myself right now. Any specific chips you use?
Well here is a data point, for what it's worth.
8 grams oak chips, cover with Makers Mark
Let set for 3-4 days.
Add to 1 Gallon of an oatmeal stout.
let set for a week+. (week target, bottled in 10 days I think).
My thoughts: maybe a tad too much oak, not enough Bourbon
Local brew group tasting consensus: too much oak
The soaking in Bourbon, while adding bourbon to the oak, also extracts a lot of oak flavor. Look at how to make tinctures! So I see now why the comments on tossing (or putting to other use) the bourbon. An alternative might be less soaking, more bourbon, maybe less oak in the mixture. But bourbon just to cover and soaking several days was not the right combo.
8 grams oak chips, cover with Makers Mark
Let set for 3-4 days.
Add to 1 Gallon of an oatmeal stout.
let set for a week+. (week target, bottled in 10 days I think).
My thoughts: maybe a tad too much oak, not enough Bourbon
Local brew group tasting consensus: too much oak
The soaking in Bourbon, while adding bourbon to the oak, also extracts a lot of oak flavor. Look at how to make tinctures! So I see now why the comments on tossing (or putting to other use) the bourbon. An alternative might be less soaking, more bourbon, maybe less oak in the mixture. But bourbon just to cover and soaking several days was not the right combo.
I've used plain American White oak, medium toast French oak. I've used more chips & bourbon, & less. I'm thinking 2-3 ounces of medium toast American white oak with a couple jiggers of bourbon to soak during primary would be better.
yesyves
Member
Hi
Thanks for this very interesting thread. There is something I don't get. Why pitch in secondary oak chips that have soaked a week in bourbon ? why not just pitch the bourbon ? Does the additional soak really make a difference ?
Thanks !
Thanks for this very interesting thread. There is something I don't get. Why pitch in secondary oak chips that have soaked a week in bourbon ? why not just pitch the bourbon ? Does the additional soak really make a difference ?
Thanks !
DuncB
Well-Known Member
The bourbon is to kill any bugs in the wood ( hopefully), yes some oak will be in the bourbon but time and a different solute ( beer / water) produce other flavours.
PashMaddle
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“Oak chips” you say? Will any old oak do, or are there other criteria the wood should meet?
*eyes huge oak tree in back yard *
*eyes huge oak tree in back yard *
Alternatively: Every bourbon already has some age on wood, so skip the middle-man, and just add the bourbon straight from the bottle to the bottling bucket. I really like a rate of 2 oz bourbon per gallon of beer to be packaged (where the beer in question is invariably a big roasty/chocolatey stout).
I've been having success aging 5 gallons of beer in a keg on 2oz oak CUBES for 2 to 5 months
Cubes extract at a much slower rate than chips. I add 2oz bourbon to the cubes about an hour before kegging to sanitize the cubes and then toss everything in
There's another thread on here you can find where I recently discussed my current process
Here's the link to my post
Post in thread 'Tips on Wood Aging.' https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/tips-on-wood-aging.119445/post-10348608
Cubes extract at a much slower rate than chips. I add 2oz bourbon to the cubes about an hour before kegging to sanitize the cubes and then toss everything in
There's another thread on here you can find where I recently discussed my current process
Here's the link to my post
Post in thread 'Tips on Wood Aging.' https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/tips-on-wood-aging.119445/post-10348608
agentbud
Well-Known Member
I brewed a big stout a couple weeks ago. While going through my ingredient's cabinet, I came across some oak chips I had set to soaking in makers mark 3 years ago and forgot about. The bourbon had all evaporated (or soaked into the chips). Smelled wonderful when I opened it so I tossed them into the stout for secondary ferm. Interested to see how that turns out...
jerrylotto
Well-Known Member
When I soak oak chips in bourbon, they usually take up all of the liquid. My ratio for a bourbon stout is about 4-6 oz (wt) of oak with 2-3 oz (vol) bourbon.
hiphoppotamuss
Well-Known Member
I've always tossed in the oak chips/cubes with the roughly 6oz of soaking bourbon into my RIS's and they've always been delicious. But then again I love strong oak and bourbon flavors so....
I can attest that Jerry's bourbon stout is delicious
InspectorJon
Well-Known Member
Certain kinds of oak are particularly well suited for woodworking and a subset of those are good for making barrels to age wine and spirits. Different varieties of oak have different levels of tannins and other things that can affect flavor. Ask a group of winemakers about the differences between American and French oak and listen to the debate.
You might find some firewood oak that has poor woodworking qualities but good flavor qualities to use in this soaking chips, sticks or cubes kind of application. It would be kind of a crapshoot. Some oaks have very high levels of tannin. I would figure out a way to do some kind of a taste test before adding it to your beer.
You might start a whole new trend in aged beers. Apple and cherry wood aged Imperial Amber Logger’s Dream.
Maybe take some samples of your oaks, soak in some bourbon for a while then do taste tests. Try different levels of toasting to see how that affects the results. You might come up with some really tasty stuff!
Well the oak is toasted too, right? The inside of bourbon barrels are charred so it makes sense to have toasted oak. And they sell different toasts. So if you were going to make your own (and I claim no expertise) I would assume you would toast themMaybe take some samples of your oaks, soak in some bourbon for a while then do taste tests. Try different levels of toasting to see how that affects the results. You might come up with some really tasty stuff!
I have an imperial stout that has been sitting on bourbon soaked oak cubes for about 7 months that I need to bottle. I’ve had some commercial ones that have a really intense oak/bourbon/vanilla character that I really enjoyed and it’s not uncommon to see descriptions that say things like “aged in Willet bourbon barrels for 6 months.” So I wanted to push it and see. I think I had originally decided I was going to leave it for 8 months. Its a 3 gallon batch sitting in a 3 gallon glass carboy with about 1.5 oz of cubes. The cubes sat in the bourbon in a small jar for a month. I did add the bourbon.
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I also have a bourbon barrel mead in bottles now that was a year in the making. I put it together in Jan last year. I racked it three times and the final time I put it on bourbon soaked oak cubes and let it sit until I bottled it in Nov in approach of Christmas. I’m real happy with how that turned out.
I don’t know anything about the difference in oak flavor, but from a practical standpoint, I know that white oak, and not red oak, is used for whiskey/wine barrels.
The vessels in white oaks are closed by tyloses, (cell wall extrusions) as new vessel’s are formed and the old ones no longer needed. This makes “tight” cooperage.
On the other hand, the vessels remain open in red oaks, so the wood is unfit for making barrels, as the product would just seep through the wood and out onto the floor.
If you’ve ever put stain or sealer on oaks, you have probably noticed a marked difference in how white oaks and red oaks handle the treatment.
All that being said, I am sure there are chemical differences in the oaks as well, and a red oak, while unsuitable for a barrel, might be superior for flavoring. Best to identify the species of your oak tree, then see what folks are recommending/selling. I do know that there are huge differences in the tastes of acorns due to differences in tannin levels in them.
WestMichiganSteelheader
Well-Known Member
I did this a few years ago by accident. After bottling, the beer had a very bitter tannic flavor. A few months later it was better but still tannic. By 6 months it was drinkable and by 8 months it was fantastic. I always let my bourbon oak chips sit in the secondary for 4-6 weeks as I enjoy an oak forward flavor.
