Slow (nonexistent fermentation) with WLP500

[JDesquire]

So it's been over 24 hours and I have yet to detect any signs of fermentation from my recent brew (no bubbling)... Currently I have 4 gallons of "dubbel" spiced with bitter orange peel, grains of paradise & sweet orange peel (during last min before flame out) in primary. Temperature for fermentation is approx 68-70 degrees F. Pitched WLP 500 at approx 65-70 degrees after cooling with wort chiller. I did not prepare a starter for yeast (normally I use the smack pack ... But I couldn't find the yeast strain I was looking for at brew shop from Wyeast). Also had a few beginner problems: (1) may have let my grain temp get too hot while extracting fermentable sugars (meant to steep grains at 155 degrees, but initially for the first 10 minutes was probably around 170 degrees; majority of 45 min steep was at 150-155 degrees); (2) was using liquid malt extract; I prefer powdered, but liquid was what I was given. Anyway, during the boil some of the extract burned at the bottom of the boil pot (do I need to get a new boil pot? Will all my future brews taste burnt? Did that burn off too much of my fermentable sugars?); (3) I forgot to take my OG reading until after I aerated wort and pitched my yeast ... I sanitized my equipment and took an OG post-yeast-pitch ... Wondering if1) my OG reading is going to be accurate and, (more importantly) (2) could my post-pitch OG testing have messed up the fermentation?

Basically, I'm wondering if I should wait and see if the fermentation takes charge or should I pitch some additional yeast and, if so, what strain? Ideally, something Belgium. Also, perhaps I should add some more fermentables and, if so, what?

Any advice would be much appreciated.

 

[andhou27]

The only thing that would result in no fermentation at all would be the yeast. I'd say get some yeast, re-aerate and then pitch. Make sure the yeast is healthy and make a starter just to be sure.

 

[eastoak]

i bet it's fermenting, just wait it out.

 

[Cyclman]

Big beer, underpitched, could mean a longer lag time.

 

[JDesquire]

If I pitch some more yeast today or tomorrow (this time with a starter) if I don't see signs of fermentation beginning am I going to over yeast (so to speak) the batch?

 

[Mattyc88]

If I pitch some more yeast today or tomorrow (this time with a starter) if I don't see signs of fermentation beginning am I going to over yeast (so to speak) the batch?

Can you post recipe so we can get an idea of the OG? Also, i've had plenty of fermentations that take over 24 hours to get started. If you want to pitch more yeast, you will most likely not over-pitch and a lot of people would argue the effects of over-pitching are minimal compared to the effects of under-pitching.

EDIT: Also, don't worry about the bottom of your pot. Just clean it well before you do your next batch. Should be fine. When adding extract, I always lower flame as low as possible or even flame out.

 

[beergolf]

I bet it will ferment. You under pitched so it will take longer to start. Also that yeast is known for being a slow starter, so just let it go and it will ferment.

I have brewed a lot of beers and have never had one not ferment. The yeast knows what to do. You just did not create the optimum conditions for a quick start.

In the future you should get in the habit of making the proper sized starter and it will make your fermetations go much better.

 

[JDesquire]

@beergolf, you are correct. Checked this morning and definitely has started fermenting... It just took approx 3 days longer to start than expected. Accordingly, should I increase time I leave in fermenter? I was planning on leaving in carboy for 14 days then racking to bottling bucket and bottling (I do not plan on dry hopping or putting in a secondary fermenter). Should I increase this to 17 or 18 days now?

 

[eastoak]

@beergolf, you are correct. Checked this morning and definitely has started fermenting... It just took approx 3 days longer to start than expected. Accordingly, should I increase time I leave in fermenter? I was planning on leaving in carboy for 14 days then racking to bottling bucket and bottling (I do not plan on dry hopping or putting in a secondary fermenter). Should I increase this to 17 or 18 days now?

it did not really take 3 days longer, it was fermenting all along it just was not showing signs of fermentation. it's best to make decisions about fermenting beer based on hydrometer readings, not calender days. having said that, if the beer is fermenting within the temperature range of your yeast there is a very good chance it will fully attenuate in 14 days, more days won't make it more better.

 

[kh54s10]

Answers in red

So it's been over 24 hours and I have yet to detect any signs of fermentation from my recent brew (no bubbling)... 24 hours is way to early to get concerned, especially since you should have made a starter. Lag time will increase when underpitching a big beer.
Currently I have 4 gallons of "dubbel" spiced with bitter orange peel, grains of paradise & sweet orange peel (during last min before flame out) in primary. Temperature for fermentation is approx 68-70 degrees F. Pitched WLP 500 at approx 65-70 degrees after cooling with wort chiller. I did not prepare a starter for yeast (normally I use the smack pack ... But I couldn't find the yeast strain I was looking for at brew shop from Wyeast).

A smack pack is not a stater. The inner pack is only a nutrient intended to "proof" and energize the yeast. If the pack swells the yeast are alive. If the pack doesn't swell though, it does not mean the yeast are dead...


Also had a few beginner problems: (1) may have let my grain temp get too hot while extracting fermentable sugars (meant to steep grains at 155 degrees, but initially for the first 10 minutes was probably around 170 degrees; majority of 45 min steep was at 150-155 degrees);
These temperatures are not too high and should have little effect on the beer.
(2) was using liquid malt extract; I prefer powdered, but liquid was what I was given. Anyway, during the boil some of the extract burned at the bottom of the boil pot (do I need to get a new boil pot? Will all my future brews taste burnt? Did that burn off too much of my fermentable sugars?);
Soak in Oxyclean or PBW then scrub off all the burnt residue. If it is an aluminum pot boil it full of water for 30 minutes to re-establish an oxidized layer.
(3) I forgot to take my OG reading until after I aerated wort and pitched my yeast ... I sanitized my equipment and took an OG post-yeast-pitch ... Wondering if1) my OG reading is going to be accurate and, (more importantly) (2) could my post-pitch OG testing have messed up the fermentation?

As long as fermentation hadn't started your OG readin is accurate.

Basically, I'm wondering if I should wait and see if the fermentation takes charge or should I pitch some additional yeast and, if so, what strain? Ideally, something Belgium. Also, perhaps I should add some more fermentables and, if so, what?

If you can get some more of the same yeast it wouldn't hurt to pitch another vial. Check mrmalty.com and Yeastcalc.com for information on starters and calculators to determine how much is optimum.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

 

[hokieguy95]

Big beer, underpitched, could mean a longer lag time.

^

My first Dubbel I used WLP530. I pitched it when the temp was 64. It took more than 72 hours for it to show signs. What I did

1- Worry

2- Used a santized brew spoon to rouse the yeast gingerly

3- Then on Sunday we had a warm spell and the house got to 73 and it kicked in like a madman. The Beer turned out fantastic.

My advice: Don't do number one.

Maybe rouse the yeast and warm them up a bit and just wait. You can always pitch more yeast if you have too.

 

[JDesquire]

Thank you all for the advice. It is definitely actively fermenting now (I decided to wait it out rather than re-pitch). Now I'm slightly worried about the fermentation temperature... I've been trying to keep it around 75 (I read Belgium yeasts like it slightly warmer, plus I had thought it may kick start the fermentation) and, before the active fermentation kicked in, i wrapped it with blankets (otherwise was around 68 degrees) and, when wrapped, the temp remained pretty constant at 74 degrees. I checked this morning and, now that it is actively fermenting, I guess the internal temp spiked radically; when i checked on it this morning it was at 78 degrees. So I've taken the blankets off and it looks like now the temp is at 76 and dropping. I'm wondering: (1) with this type of yeast am i correct to try and keep it at 75 degrees or should I try and keep cooler (or warmer); and (2) what effect may 24 hours at too high a fermentation temp have on final product?

 

[hokieguy95]

Thank you all for the advice. It is definitely actively fermenting now (I decided to wait it out rather than re-pitch). Now I'm slightly worried about the fermentation temperature... I've been trying to keep it around 75 (I read Belgium yeasts like it slightly warmer, plus I had thought it may kick start the fermentation) and, before the active fermentation kicked in, i wrapped it with blankets (otherwise was around 68 degrees) and, when wrapped, the temp remained pretty constant at 74 degrees. I checked this morning and, now that it is actively fermenting, I guess the internal temp spiked radically; when i checked on it this morning it was at 78 degrees. So I've taken the blankets off and it looks like now the temp is at 76 and dropping. I'm wondering: (1) with this type of yeast am i correct to try and keep it at 75 degrees or should I try and keep cooler (or warmer); and (2) what effect may 24 hours at too high a fermentation temp have on final product?

500 is the Chimay strain. Temperature range for this yeast says it can go to 85. Chimay let's it's yeast rise to 81. So if yours is around 76 your still going to get a nice flavor and it surely won't be a problem. Your going to make a good beer. Probably Spicy, light phenols and fruity. These yeast can handle the heat and a little higher than 75-76 will bring out even more fruit and phenols. That's the beauty of these yeasts. I've always let the Trappist liquid style yeasts go warmer and 24 hours at those temps is right in line with that type of beers profile.

BTW: If you are uber serious about Belgian beer making, get the book Brew like a Monk". It lists the the Temps the Trappist's use for their yeasts.