Slightly Frustrated - 1st all grain

[Frenchy]

I just got done with my 1st all grain brew day. According to the recipe I got from "Radical Brew" and my brew software, I should have got an OG of 1.066. Unfortunately, my actual OG was 1.054. According to the brew software I only got about 54% efficiency rather than the 70% that it uses for standard. It's possible that my sample wasn't entirely accurate, as I didn't stir the wort just prior to taking my sample for test.
But asside from that, my frustration isn't so much that my brew won't be as strong as it should be (alcohol % that is), but rather that if I'm taking that efficiency into account, I'd be buying way more grain that I should be to get the amount of fermentables that I want. Having said all that, I do realize that 1)it was my first attempt at all grain 2) not 100% confident in the quality of the mash, as when I took my last temp reading at the end of mash it seemed way too low, even though the previous reads were right were they should be.
I'm doing another all grain this coming Sunday, so I'll wait till them to do some major figuring into why my efficiency is so low. Hopefully my OG read was off, and the next batch will come out as I expect it too.

I know someone will ask.
8.5# Maris Otter
4.0# Special Roast
0.5# Brown Malt
Mash at 157 F for 45 min (i did closer to an hour)
I collected 6 gal of wort at end of sparg to allow for a 1 hr boil.

 

[944play]

It's possible that my sample wasn't entirely accurate, as I didn't stir the wort just prior to taking my sample for test.

No, the boil would have stirred the wort adequately. That's not it.

4 lbs Special Roast, is that a typo?

 

[Brew_4iT]

Did you add water after the boil to bring it up to volume and or chill it before you took a reading?

How did you do your sparging?

 

[tangofoxtrot308]

My first two AG were low my main problem was ending up with more than my set batch size which throws off the efficiency. I also crush my grain a little tighter and batch sparge so my last two have been 75-80%. I suggest better crush and batch sparge to start.

 

[Yooper]

No, the boil would have stirred the wort adequately. That's not it.

4 lbs Special Roast, is that a typo?

I assume you mean .4 pounds special roast and that the 4 pounds of special roast was a typo. If not, at least that explains the low OG!

Also, if you stopped at 6 gallons, you probably will get a lower efficiency due to undersparging. I assume you only boil off about .75 gallons an hour, but you could definitely try boiling a bit harder and boil off at least 1-1.25 gallons per hour. Remember that you have some trub losses and kettle losses, as well as wort shrinkage when it cools, so I try to end up with 5.25 gallons at the end of the boil.

 

[BrewForMe]

I am new to AG also with only 2 batches under my belt. My O.G. were not perfect for either, but IMO practice will make perfect. it is my understanding that it may take a few batches to get things dialed in. I was concerned about mash temps so I am waiting for my new thermometer to get here. I will have 2 so i can compare and check the accuracy of my first one.

Don't let it bother you too much yet, IMO if you are on your tenth batch and still having serious problems, then you should really re evaluate your process, but try a couple more and see how things turn out. Keep on Brewin!

 

[MikeinCT]

I have fought the "too low" efficiency for months now and feel that I am just getting it now. Small changes can have big effects. But you will get it.

In the meantime be assured that you will make great tasting beer that will have good body and flavor but maybe not be quite as good as it could be. Sacrifice volume for OG and keep looking for the 75% that many others seem to be getting.

my $0.02, Mike

 

[Brew_4iT]

I've changed my stove top procedure a lot since researching on here. I used to mash for only 30 min, now I go for atleast 40 min sometimes longer. Every 5 min I check the temp and if it get's lower than 150 f I have boiling water handy on another burner. I stir it in gently until I get around 155. Sometimes I need to do this more than a couple times, sometimes only once.

Then for sparging instead of pouring it over the grains like I used to, I steep the whole bag of grains in another pot with 170 f water. I let it sit for a few minutes and then swish it around lift drain, and repeat this process till the water gets to around 160. I pour that back into the main pot and boil for an hour before starting the hop schedule.
Hope that helps some.

 

[IXVolt]

as well as wort shrinkage when it cools

Something most of us suffer with.


On a serious note:
A lot of things come into play for efficiency. From how long you mash, what temperature, did you have any dough balls in your mash, mash/water ratio used, did you let the mash sit 10~15 minutes inbetween the vorlaufs before you got your second/third runnings, etc etc etc.

Also as Yoop mentioned, if you accounted for a certain boil off, but didn't have a strong boil it could have changed the OG also.

 

[SaccharoVices]

I have measured a 10%+ increase in extraction efficiency just from the difference in grain crush. For a while I was getting my grain crushed at my LHBS, but after using my adjustable Schmidling malt mill (not intentionally plugging their product, no affiliation etc....) , I have a measured difference (all other parameters of process staying the same) when going with a slightly finer crush-I have more flour sized particles in mine, but not enough to effect a stuck mash. With the LHBS crush I consistently get 1.054 OG from 11 pounds of grain, now I get 1.061 .

 

[SaccharoVices]

In addition to my previous post, I have noticed better efficiencies in a much longer mash time. Understand that the theory is that highly modified malts can convert starch to sugar relatively quickly, but the starch has to be accessible- which means a longer mash time, finer crush, or both. I mash for 90 minutes, usually doing a rest at 122F, then raise to saccharification temp for the 60 minute rest. Good commercial (and artisan) breweries, where the economics of maximum extraction really matter, mash for a long time.

 

[JeepDiver]

It does take a while to get it dialed in. I moves this spring. Last year I was hitting 75%-78% every batch and ended type with proper volumes pre and post boil This year my first batch was 54% and I was 1 gallon under target. NExt batch was about 60% and 1.5 gal over. I've got my effort back up to the 72-75% range but still playing hello with getting voulmes right. so many things go into hitting the number that it just takes a while to dial in what works for you

 

[Frenchy]

1. Yes, I used 4# of Briess Special Roast. This was a Nut Brown Ale recipe, and the recipe called for 4# of Biscuit\Amer Malt. The characteristics of the grain said “biscuit flavor..for nut brown ales.” If this is my main issue, I’ll be a little irritated for not getting guidance, but relieved to know my problem.
2. I collected 6 gallons, and boiled 1 hr, ending at 5 gallons (after cooling). The recipe called for a 90 minute boil, but didn’t specify how much to collect, so I just went with a 60 min boil and collected enough wort for that.. I suppose my issue could be that I didn’t collect enough wort for a 90 min boil.
3. Also, I forgot to mention that the recipe called for a think mash. 1 qt per pound, which seemed pretty low to me.

JeepDiver…Anything specific you did to raise your efficiency?
In the end, I’m not too worried about it as it was my first time. This coming weekend, I’ll get a chance to see what I come up with at the end of brew day. Thanks for you help, and feel free to pass any suggestions along to help out if I find that I really do have a problem

 

[Yooper]

Well........your recipe is really bad to be honest. I can see 4#s of amber malt, maybe, as amber malt is a base malt. It's unusual to find it in the US, though. Thomas Fawcett makes an amber malt that is quite good in browns and porters, and I have a feeling that was the malt that should have been used. I'll look at my book in a little while, to make sure I"m not just talking out of my ass, though!

But biscuit malt is NOT a sub, and neither is special roast. Special roast is a specialty malt, not a base malt, and you usually use it sparingly in a batch.

This beer might take a long, long time to mellow and be drinkable. Next time- run the recipe by us first, just to make sure it's ok.

Anyway, several things go into efficiency. I'd suggest a mash thickness of 1.25- 1.5 quarts per pound, and sparging with as much as you can. You'll lose quite a bit of efficiency by sparging such a small amount. I'd look at boiling a bit harder (you don't need a 90 minute boil usually, though) so that you get a decent boil off and consider starting with 6.5 gallons and boiling down to 5.25.

Mashing for an hour is adequate for complete conversion, unless you're using a lot of adjuncts.