simple Graff recipe?

[GeneDaniels1963]

I searched the forum on this topic, but did not find a direct answer. So here goes:

Can I simply add DME to apple juice to make a Graff?

I have been thinking of a 1:4 or 1:3 ratio. I am thinking I can just reconstitute the DME in some warm water, to a matching SG, then mix into the juice. Or perhaps add as a "secondary" ferment? I don't usually use a secondary ferment, but in this case it might keep more of the malt.

What say ye?

 

[LLBeanJ]

This may be of use to you...

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=117117

And no, you don't need a secondary. Boil the DME, wort from the steeped grains (unless you omit the grains), along with any hops you may use, cool it, and add to apple juice in your primary along with an ale or lager yeast of your choice. Package from primary when ready.

 

[GeneDaniels1963]

This may be of use to you...

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=117117

Thanks. I looked at that recipe but it is more complicated that I want to mess with. But now I am working my way through the rest of the thread looking for tidbits that will help me.

 

[bernardsmith]

I think you have two options. (I sometimes make apple ale which is essentially a Graff). You can make a beer and a cider and blend them after both are ready to bottle (Choose your volumes for each 1:1 , 2: 1 , 3:1 etc)
OR
You can make a wort and add this to the fermenter with the apple juice (you decide then what yeast to use - could be a mixture of two (or more) yeasts, but do not use a killer yeast. If you do, there will only be one yeast left to ferment the must - and that'll be the killer)
OR
You can simply add the DME to the apple juice (this will give you a far higher ABV! ) . IMO, there is no need to boil the DME (already superheated in its manufacture) and to add hops you can boil hops in a little water, perhaps with a few drops of lemon juice to drop the pH . There is no need to include any sugar to isomerize the hops and you can obtain all the bitterness, the flavor and aroma using low pH water - despite what brewers might claim.
Apple ale - like any fermented drink is as easy to make as adding yeast to a solution of sugar and water (with nutrients) or it can be as complicated and complex as the authors of recipes want to make it... C'est la guerre. C'est la vie. Good luck!

 

[Roland_deschain]

Steeping some grains helps with the finished flavors. I use a little crystal and some carapils along with the dme. When I omitted them I had lousy head retention and almost no flavors beyond a hint of apple on the finish. If you’re really down with going the easy way, just pitch the yeast onto the juice. IMO that would give you an historically correct hard cider.

 

[GeneDaniels1963]

So I am moving ahead with the graff. I started with my regular cider recipe; 1 gal juice, one can FAJC, and Notty yeast. Then I let that ferment outside for 5 days in 50F daytime weather.

Then, two days ago I added 3 oz Briess Sparkling Amber DME to 3 cups boiling water. After it was all dissolved I just added it to the cider.

Fermentation is still slow and steady. I have not check SG yet, but I will in a day or two.

I have not decided if I will dry hop this, or leave it with just the malt taste. We shall see. I will keep you informed.

 

[Evan55]

Can I simply add DME to apple juice to make a Graff?

Yes, Ive done 2 gallons apple juice, and boiled 1.5c of amber dried malt extract in apple juice (you could also do water) and added it in. result was a lot like a light beer, with just a bit of fruity tartness

in my experience all graffs always turns out a lot more like beer than cider, so make sure thats your thing

edit: just saw your most recent post. 3oz of DME may only have a subtle effect on the flavor but ive never seen it done post initial ferment so im curious how it turns out

 

[bernardsmith]

Think it totally depends on the % of cider vs the % of ale. The more ale there is the closer it tastes to ale. The more cider the closer it tastes to cider.

 

[GeneDaniels1963]

I just tasted the graff. It is 3/1 apple to wort. It has a strong beer taste, barely any apple at all. I am not a big fan of the current taste, so I decided to dry hop it now. I'm am trying 1/4oz in 1 gal. I plan to let the hops sit for 2-3 days.

I realize the taste may change if I let it sit. But I like my ciders young, so I am trying to find a malted recipe that will taste good right after fermentation.

If I don't like the 3/1 hopped, then I have another gal of cider brewing outside that I can add some malt next, this time it will be 4/1. I really like cider, so I want a apple-forward taste in the ale. If 4/1 juice/wort does not give the taste I want, I will probably give up on Graff and just stay with variations of cider such as with molasses or spices.

Nevertheless, the 3/1 graff is not bad, just too beer-ish for what I was wanting. If I wanted such a strong beer taste I would just drink light ale.

 

[GeneDaniels1963]

Oh my, what a difference a few tweeks and 24 hours can make!

So I added some more straight cider to the graff, probably moved it to 4/1 (cider/malt wort). Then I dry hopped it for 24 hours with 1/8oz whole Cascade hops. I was bored tonight with the wife gone to work so I decided to try a small glass.

Wow, a whole different class of drink! What had been a flat kind of beerish thing is now bright, citrusy, complex, etc etc. It is amazing! I like just plan cider but this is SO much better. This is truly apple ale now. I am going to take another gal that I have brewing outside and give it the same treatment; 4/1 malt addition, then dry hop, then I am going to bottle it for a month or so. I cannot imagine it betting better, but if it does, whoa, this will be some incredible stuff.

I have a business trip in 4 weeks, and one of the people who will be there is a friend who is a serious craft brew connoisseur and I think he will love this stuff. I am not a big beer fan, but this stuff is impressive even straight off the fermentor.

 

[madscientist451]

Was trolling through old Basic Brewing podcasts the other day, and came across the one on Graf from 2013:

http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/c/f/1/cf1...12132724&hwt=8ca3b83340569519776aaca0bf56d639

I haven't tried it but it sounded super easy to make, Wheat LME, steep some Honey Malt, boil
with Palisades hops and add honey. Apple juice is not boiled, but added to the fermenter and the wort is dumped in, recommended yeast is WY 1450, Denny's Favorite. The brewers interviewed stated they had tried several different hops/malt and yeast combinations and that this combination worked really good. They also made a version with pineapple juice, and then a third version with the first two blended.
The tasters on the podcast said it tasted good, which is good enough for me to try it.
So this isn't as simple as dumping some LME into some apple juice, but the combination of Honey malt, wheat, barley, honey seems well worth the extra effort.
I'm going to attempt my own version, adding dry cider that's already fermented (last years) when the brewed portion has finished fermenting.

 

[Miraculix]

What you are experiencing now are the fresh dry hop flavours. Unfortunately, those will fade off during the next weeks till almost nothing of it will be left, so drink it fresh if you like it!

 

[GeneDaniels1963]

I like to drink my ciders while they are young, so this sounds like this will work. I have three going; one going that was dry hopped only, one cider malted and hopped, and a third that is just malted. I plan to let each age a few weeks then drink them. I'm interested to compare.

 

[dsis42]

Was trolling through old Basic Brewing podcasts the other day, and came across the one on Graf from 2013:

http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/c/f/1/cf1...12132724&hwt=8ca3b83340569519776aaca0bf56d639

I haven't tried it but it sounded super easy to make, Wheat LME, steep some Honey Malt, boil
with Palisades hops and add honey. Apple juice is not boiled, but added to the fermenter and the wort is dumped in, recommended yeast is WY 1450, Denny's Favorite. The brewers interviewed stated they had tried several different hops/malt and yeast combinations and that this combination worked really good. They also made a version with pineapple juice, and then a third version with the first two blended.
The tasters on the podcast said it tasted good, which is good enough for me to try it.
So this isn't as simple as dumping some LME into some apple juice, but the combination of Honey malt, wheat, barley, honey seems well worth the extra effort.
I'm going to attempt my own version, adding dry cider that's already fermented (last years) when the brewed portion has finished fermenting.

Hi, do you happen to have these recipes that David and Brooke used? I can't seem to find them anywhere.

 

[madscientist451]

Hi, do you happen to have these recipes that David and Brooke used?

I'm pretty sure they described their recipe during the podcast.