Should I upgrade to a liquid yeast

[Darkbrew]

So I am getting ready to order a recipe online, from Midwest supplies, they state that you are able to upgrade to a liquid yeast if you wish.

This will only be the 3rd batch I have ever made, I have always used the Nottingham dry yeast.

My question is: Should I upgrade to a liquid yeast or stick with the dry yaest that comes with it? I am just not completely happy with the taste of my first two batches and I am wondering if a different yeast may be in order.

I am ordering a Fat Tire clone:

Flat Tire (Fat Tire): This popular Belgian Ale comes from one of the most respected breweries in the mountain states. This rich, nutty ale is bottled conditioned with a blend of hops that impart a fresh aroma and a smooth texture. Our ingredients for this recipe include: 6 lbs. Light liquid malt extract, 8 oz. Special B, 8 oz. Caramel 120°L, 8 oz. Munich 10°L specialty grains, 2 oz. of hops, grain bag, priming sugar and yeast. Flat Tire w/ Nottingham dry yeast.

 

[kryolla]

If you are not happy with the first 2 batches with nottingham yeast then upgrade to white labs after all we are brewing our own beer so it will taste better than commercial beer so why not use the best yeast.

 

[secinarot]

Dry yeast is fine for beers that need a neutral yeast. But for styles which get a flavor characteristic from the yeast, your only option to stay true to the style may be liquid yeast. There are many more varieties of liquid available. For the Fat Tire I would think you want to go with a Belgian Ale yeast. The Nottingham is a pretty generic yeast.

 

[VTBrewer]

Upgrade and get some DME and make a starter. The Belgian 1214 is slow to get going.

Good luck

 

[craigd]

Belgians and Weizens both really need the specialty yeasts that are only available in liquid format. I would definitely upgrade to Belgian ale yeast for this one. I use liquids almost exclusively but I think for beers styles with a neutral yeast profile dry would be fine...

 

[ommegosh]

I have recently brewed and am currently consuming the Midwest Flat Tire kit. I went with Wyeast 1214 liquid yest option and can provide some feedback. If you are familiar with Fat Tire and would like something similar to it, I'd go with the Nottingham dry or see if you can sub Safale Us-05 and you'll end up with a nice American Amber at least in the ballpark of the New Belgium brew. With the liquid yeast, you are going to get the Belgian character which in my opinion is a big style difference. I am very happy with the end result, but am a fan of Belgians styles. I'd classify it as a lower alcohol content dubbel, a singel perhaps. The color of this brew is simply gorgeous.

Note: as someone else mentioned I did not not make a starter and my fermentation did not take off for 3-4 days but eventually got going and finished up just fine.

 

[Darkbrew]

Thanks for the fast replies!

So these two items are what you suggest?

Starter Kit: (is there a better or cheaper way than this kit?)
Yeast Starter Kit :: Midwest Supplies Homebrewing and Winemaking Supplies

Yeast:
Belgian Ale Wyeast W1214- 1.75 oz. :: Midwest Supplies Homebrewing and Winemaking Supplies

 

[homebrewer_99]

Also read up on Yeast Washing so you can get many batches out of the same yeast.

 

[Pivzavod]

Flat Tire w/ Belgian Ale Wyeast Activator 1214 :: Midwest Supplies Homebrewing and Winemaking Supplies

this one

 

[Special Hops]

IMO dry yeast is actually easier to use then liquid and typically starts faster. And just as good for the basic styles.

However, liquid yeast has a lot more variety. I have gone back and forth beween using them, but have finally settled to use dry whenever I can but will use liquid if a certain dry strain is not available.

 

[Darkbrew]

Hey ommegosh email me one of those brews!

Homebrewer_99 ty for bringing that up I have been interested in learning more about that but didn't really know where to start.

I Just ordered a V-Vessel also, I've read mixed opinions on them but thought I would give it a try anyway.

 

[Darkbrew]

Flat Tire w/ Belgian Ale Wyeast Activator 1214 :: Midwest Supplies Homebrewing and Winemaking Supplies

this one

Thank you thank you , I was wondering how the upgrade process worked, didn't realize it was a totally diff item!

So the starter kit I posted is ok?

 

[kryolla]

or you can just pitch 2 vials and not worry about making a starter and buying the equipment until you get serious but for just starting out I would buy 2 vials just my 2 cents

 

[VTBrewer]

It's decent, but....

You may find yourself going for a 2 liter beaker for bigger beers in a short time.
Might be more economical to get more DME, i get the 3# bag
You don't need a drilled stopper and airlock if you don't want. Tin foil is ok.

 

[mysteryberto]

I would worry more about other factors like sanitation and fermentation control. What temperature were your two batches fermenting at?

Last year Wyeast had Fat tire yeast as a special yeast. However I don't think it's generally available. To my tastes fat tire doesn't have a whole lot of Belgian flavor and I don't think it's fermented with a Belgian yeast.

 

[Darkbrew]

I would worry more about other factors like sanitation and fermentation control. What temperature were your two batches fermenting at?

Last year Wyeast had Fat tire yeast as a special yeast. However I don't think it's generally available. To my tastes fat tire doesn't have a whole lot of Belgian flavor and I don't think it's fermented with a Belgian yeast.

Fermentation temp stayed between 65 to 67 deg F

Just to clear upsomething I did not mention, my first two batches were not Fat Tire, actually the first was a Gunniess clone, the second was an Oktoberfest beer.

How about this one with a smack pack (do those work ok?)
Flat Tire w/ Belgian Ale Wyeast Propagator 1214 :: Midwest Supplies Homebrewing and Winemaking Supplies

 

[guevedoche]

If you don't want to make a starter, you want the activator smack pack not the propagator smack pack.

The activator packs (in the kit Pivzavod linked to) are supposed to have ~100 billion cells and are intended to be used directly on 5 gallon batches with an OG under ~1.050 (your mileage and the opinions on this board as to whether you need a starter anyway may vary).

The propagator packs have only ~35 billion cells and are intended to be pitched into a starter for amplification before use.

First post so take it FWIW.

 

[flowerysong]

Dry yeast isn't an "upgrade", it's an alternative. If you need the characteristics of a yeast that's only available in liquid form (such as Ringwood or Pacman) by all means use it, but don't fall into the trap of thinking that liquid yeast is somehow superior and will automatically make better beer.

For a Fat Tire clone, based on the suggestions Peter Bouckaert gave BYO if I were looking to switch out yeasts I'd probably go with a different dry yeast, Safale US-05.

 

[SleepySamSlim]

for what its worth - I'm doing a fat tire clone from the recent copy of BYO which has a 150 clone recipes in it --- they also are using a liquid yeast White Labs WLP051.

Talked with the brew shop and he's recommending Danstar Windsor - you might try that.

I got into brewing this last Summer when a teacher at work (been brewing for 6yrs) gave me an Alaskan Amber that was so smooth and balanced it rivaled some of the beers I had in Germany ----- and he is an extract and dry yeast brewer. Keeps it very simple.

I second someone else who said its better to focus on process and brewing skills up front. Enjoy the process - don't get rushed.

 

[brown_dog_us]

Here is a quote form the interview with the Brewmaster in BYO that Flowersong posted:

As for yeast, Bouckaert suggests using a strain low in esters and other flavor components, like American pale ale yeast (Wyeast 1056 or BrewTek CL-10). Fermentation should take place at the low end of the temperature range. The beer should look clear, have low carbonation and give off a malty, fruity aroma with hints of bread crust. It should leave a toasted flavor on the palate and a subtle hop component for balance.

 

[Darkbrew]

Here's an update with my final decision.

I waited to long to order offline or I would not be able to brew this weekend.
So a visit to the LHBS was the only option. Turns out that the orginal Fat Tire takes 1 week primary 2 weeks secondary, and 1 to 2 months aging. I do not have this much time because I am dangerously low on HB.

I went with their beta kit of the fat tire amber which will be ready much sooner. It came with the dry yeast Safale US-05. as someone else had suggested so stuck I with that.

Thanks for everyone's help.

So my next question is: would it be worth my time to wash this yeast or should that only be done with certain types of yeast?

 

[OLB]

I think the US-05 is probably cheap enough where you might be better off using a fresh packet. Washing definitely makes sense with some of the expensive liquid yeasts.

Of course I am also a noob and repeating what I have read in some other threads related to yeast washing. I will be giving it a try myself when the kits I brew this week are out of the fermentor. I definitely want to limit the number of $7 smack packs I have to buy.

 

[david_42]

Much as I campaign for dry yeast, a liquid Belgian yeast is a good idea for a Belgian. No dry yeast can give you the right ester profile.

 

[mbird]

I use the Safale us05 as the standard workhorse for my pale ales and IPA's. It starts fast, is neutral and attenuates well, and since it is so inexpensive compared to the liquid, I can pitch 2 pkgs for and almost immediate fermentation start. But, for all other beers I tend to go for the specific liquid yeast that is recommended for the style.
mark
Beer Diary...

 

[jds]

Much as I campaign for dry yeast, a liquid Belgian yeast is a good idea for a Belgian. No dry yeast can give you the right ester profile.

For true Belgian styles, I agree. However, I wouldn't call Fat Tire a true Belgian beer. It doesn't really have any of the "zing" that goes with Belgians. If 1056 or similar yeast is being recommended by Peter Bouckaert (NB's Brewmaster), then S-05 would be a perfect dry yeast, given that it's supposedly the same strain.

And Darkbrew: Like others have said, I wouldn't necessarily call liquid yeasts an "upgrade". They are another tool to use in the process to achieve a desired end. That said, I would recommend reading up on starters and good yeast management practice before diving into liquid yeasts. It's not hard, but there are some things to keep in mind.

Here's some reading to get you going:
http://www.mrmalty.com/starter_faq.htm
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Starter