Secondary obsolete?

[Beer is good]

Since apparently leaving stuff in the primary for months does not cause off flavors, contrary to what I've always believed, is there any reason to rack to a secondary?

I can think of one reason - to lose some of the trub and hopefully end up with less at bottling time.

Are there other arguments for moving brew to a secondary?

 

[feinbera]

Racking onto hops/fruit (though some folks just plunk those into their primary, too), or looooong bulk aging (months-years)

 

[NTXBrauer]

3 that come to mine are:

1. Dry hopping
2. Aging/conditioning a heavy beer (you want to pull off the yeast cake)
3. Adding fruits/adjuncts

 

[Beer is good]

So if I have a total fermentation time of like 2-3 weeks I probably don't need to rack it at all. Any problems with cold crashing in the primary?

 

[passedpawn]

So if I have a total fermentation time of like 2-3 weeks I probably don't need to rack it at all. Any problems with cold crashing in the primary?

Cold crash in primary. Skip the secondary. It's the new norm.

Welcome back!

 

[day_trippr]

So if I have a total fermentation time of like 2-3 weeks I probably don't need to rack it at all. Any problems with cold crashing in the primary?

You don't, and I've been doing this for a long time now with no issues.

I dry hop in the primary fermenter using pellets at ~ room temperature for a handful of days, then cold-crash to 34°F to drop everything hard to the bottom before kegging.

The only "secondary" I do any more is for big-ass stouts and fruity brews...

Cheers!

 

[Beer is good]

Sounds nice and easy buddies! I'll definitely skip the secondary from now on.

 

[Calder]

I still secondary most beers, as I want to harvest the yeast relatively cleanly, and don't want the beer left on it too long. My 'standard' process:

- Primary 3 weeks, rack to secondary and collect yeast.
- Add gelatin, dry hops, spices, etc.
- Package after another 2 weeks.

 

[TipsySaint]

If you have a bunch of beers aging, going to something with a small head space is good. it also frees up a 6.5 for a fresh batch!

 

[Beer is good]

If you have a bunch of beers aging, going to something with a small head space is good. it also frees up a 6.5 for a fresh batch!

Ahh yes, good point. I am currently brewing 1 gallon batches in 1 gallon carboys so it does not come into play for me. I would like to find a 6 quart carboy though.

 

[doug293cz]

I still secondary most beers, as I want to harvest the yeast relatively cleanly, and don't want the beer left on it too long. My 'standard' process:

- Primary 3 weeks, rack to secondary and collect yeast.
- Add gelatin, dry hops, spices, etc.
- Package after another 2 weeks.

It's also possible to collect yeast from an over sized starter. And, no washing is necessary.

Brew on

 

[govner1]

I guess it's because I'm old & patient but I secondary all my beers & keg condition them as well.
Nice,clear, well carbonated brew.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[Black]

I still use secondaries all the time.. it depends on what you want to do. I ferment 25 liters batches in plastic buckets and I don't want to leave my beer in plastic for more than 7-10 days for obvious reasons. I then rack to secondary carboy, add gelatin, cold crash for 2 weeks. After that, I siphon 19 liters out of the 23-24 liters in the carboy and keg it, because it's crystal clear. I then rack the remaining 4-5 liters to a bottling bucket and bottle. It's my to-go beer.

I think it all depend on one's intentions with said batch of beer. As mentioned earlier, it is also very convenient for adding spices, dry hopping, aging, etc.


Cheers !

 

[rekoob]

I can't say in the past 16years I ever really used a secondary all that much, depending on how long it would be til I got to bottling. Maybe laziness on my part, I don't know.
I use glass carboys and once I started cold crashing (in primary) and then legging, it's even less that I use one.

 

[jahdub]

3 that come to mine are:

1. Dry hopping
2. Aging/conditioning a heavy beer (you want to pull of the yeast cake)
3. Adding fruits/adjuncts

Pretty much this, except I dry hopped my last IPA in primary and will never transfer to secondary to dry hop again. Cold crashed it before hand to get most of the yeast out of suspension and it came out great.

 

[Calder]

It's also possible to collect yeast from an over sized starter. And, no washing is necessary.

Brew on

I only wash on brew day, with the slurry I intend to use that day. No starter required! If I'm feeling lazy, I don't even wash it if it is less than a couple of weeks old.

Yes, I do use your method, but it is for long term storage of yeast.

 

[RM-MN]

I still use secondaries all the time.. it depends on what you want to do. I ferment 25 liters batches in plastic buckets and I don't want to leave my beer in plastic for more than 7-10 days for obvious reasons. I then rack to secondary carboy, add gelatin, cold crash for 2 weeks. After that, I siphon 19 liters out of the 23-24 liters in the carboy and keg it, because it's crystal clear. I then rack the remaining 4-5 liters to a bottling bucket and bottle. It's my to-go beer.

I think it all depend on one's intentions with said batch of beer. As mentioned earlier, it is also very convenient for adding spices, dry hopping, aging, etc.


Cheers !

Please explain what these obvious reasons are? Many of us leave our beers in plastic buckets for 3 to 4 weeks and I have left one for more than 60 days with no obvious problems.

 

[gwapogorilla]

3 that come to mine are:

1. Dry hopping
2. Aging/conditioning a heavy beer (you want to pull off the yeast cake)
3. Adding fruits/adjuncts

Yep, I agree. But I'll add #4 to this list....

4. Racking off of primary yeast cake so you may wash yeast.

 

[cannman]

Would you add gelatin if you added Whilflock at boil?

 

[RM-MN]

3 that come to mine are:

1. Dry hopping
2. Aging/conditioning a heavy beer (you want to pull off the yeast cake)
3. Adding fruits/adjuncts

1. Dry hopping in the primary seems to work just as well as it would in secondary without the accompanying chance for oxidation or infection.
2. I've left a beer in primary for more than 60 days without any problems and another brewer mentioned leaving his beer in primary for 8 months. How much more aging does your heavy beer need?
3. I'll agree to this one with some reservations. Adding fruit is a true secondary ferment. Adjuncts are more questionable, depending on what they are. Some may be fine in the primary, some need to be in secondary.

 

[ArcaneXor]

I still secondary most beers, as I want to harvest the yeast relatively cleanly, and don't want the beer left on it too long.

Why not harvest the yeast from the starter? That's as clean as it gets - you just increase the size of the starter by a couple hundred ml.

Edit:
ah, someone else already answered this.

 

[ArcaneXor]

Would you add gelatin if you added Whilflock at boil?

Yes, they do completely different things. Whirlfloc coagulates proteins, gelatin/Isinglass primarily removes yeast. Also consider liquid Isinglass instead of gelatin. It works a little faster and doesn't need to be prepared the way that gelatin does.

2. I've left a beer in primary for more than 60 days without any problems and another brewer mentioned leaving his beer in primary for 8 months. How much more aging does your heavy beer need?

60 days is awfully long unless kept cold. Six weeks is about the max I would go. My palate is very sensitive to off-flavors from autolysis, and I start picking them up in some batches around two months (though others are fine for much longer times). If your taste threshold for these flavors is higher, you may be fine for 2 months or more. But why chance it?

Please explain what these obvious reasons are? Many of us leave our beers in plastic buckets for 3 to 4 weeks and I have left one for more than 60 days with no obvious problems.

He may be referring to oxidation. 10 days is about the minimum I would ever keep a beer in primary, and that's still awfully short for a lot of batches. I usually go 2-3 weeks. You have to let the beer sit in a bucket for quite a while for oxidation to become a serious problem.

 

[psuhammer14]

The only "secondary" I do any more is for big-ass stouts and fruity brews...

Cheers!

What do you consider big-ass stouts? I am brewing a porter tomorrow that has 6.5 ABV and my LHBS recomended a secondary. Would you use a secondary for that, or just go 3-4 weeks in primary?

 

[Black]

Please explain what these obvious reasons are? Many of us leave our beers in plastic buckets for 3 to 4 weeks and I have left one for more than 60 days with no obvious problems.

Well, from what I've read, it seems that oxygen gets through plastic with time, and that bacteria can "hide" in invisible scratches and contaminate the brew if left for too long. I'm glad to know that you've made the experiment for 60 days, so it means I could leave mine in primary for longer periods without worries.

I am not overly compulsive with this, but I'd rather be safe than sorry so I rack them early to glass carboys. I once left a batch in plastic for over 2 months (too busy) and it got contaminated, since then I rack early. That being said, it could have been contaminated from the very start and it could have done the same in a glass carboy, IDK.

Thanks for the info!

Cheers !

 

[Ben58]

I only secondary in my belly!

 

[Beer is good]

I only secondary in my belly!

Hah!

I looks like a lot of people here wash yeast. This is something I never do, but maybe I will start looking into it. It's free, after all.

 

[podz]

I would like to find a 6 quart carboy though.

 

[Beer is good]

Haha, I suppose that is one option. I thought carlo rossi or some other used to make 5 or 6 quart pot belly jugs of wine but I couldn't find any at my store, only 4 quarts.

 

[Jogurt]

3 that come to mine are:

1. Dry hopping
2. Aging/conditioning a heavy beer (you want to pull off the yeast cake)
3. Adding fruits/adjuncts

Seconded.
4. Reusing expensive yeast in the best state possible.

Also, I wanted to cheer about your signature.
It is great to see that "our" proverbs make it to Texas and then all the way here through dark internet.

Dej Buh stesti!
("May God let us have luck")

 

[Calder]

Why not harvest the yeast from the starter? That's as clean as it gets - you just increase the size of the starter by a couple hundred ml.

Edit:
ah, someone else already answered this.

And I already responded. I do take yeast from my starters to store long-term (and seems to store OK for up to 2 years in the fridge). I use slurry, because it is easier, quicker, and I don't have to plan - If I decide to brew today, I have yeast ready.

I only wash on brew day, with the slurry I intend to use that day. No starter required! If I'm feeling lazy, I don't even wash it if it is less than a couple of weeks old.

Yes, I do use your method, but it is for long term storage of yeast.

 

[day_trippr]

What do you consider big-ass stouts? I am brewing a porter tomorrow that has 6.5 ABV and my LHBS recomended a secondary. Would you use a secondary for that, or just go 3-4 weeks in primary?

6.5 abv would be a half-big-ass stout I would treat it as a porter and not aim to age it for more than a few weeks...

Cheers!