Second Attempt at Pale Ale

[andyhank]

I brewed this one about 3 months ago and am about to crack my last bottle soon, so I'd like to tweak the recipe and get some feedback in order to improve it. Overall, I feel like the beer was definitely good and tasty but not great. In my opinion it was a little sweet and one dimensional because it was so fruity. I loved the galaxy hops but would like to add another layer of flavor to make it more complex, so I was thinking of a 2:1 ratio of Galaxy to Simcoe. I'm a big fan of that hop since drinking Modus Hoperandi from Ska Brewing and think pine and herbal notes of Simcoe would balance well with the fruitiness of Galaxy. I recently used Mosaic in a Smash and got a ton of blueberry, so maybe that would be an interesting addition. The hops I'm familiar with are Columbus, Chinook (Bittering), Galaxy, Citra and Mosaic. I'm open to suggestions but like to stick to those for APA's. Anyways, here's the recipe:

All Grain, 5.5 Gallon Batch

8 lbs. Maris Otter
8 oz. Carared
8 oz. Munich 10L
4 oz. Honey Malt
4 oz. Golden Naked Oats

Mashed at 153 for 60 min

1 oz. Warrior (15.00% AA) 60 min
1 oz. Galaxy (14.00% AA) 10 min
1 oz. Galaxy (14.00% AA) 5 min
1 oz. Galaxy (14.00% AA) FO
2 oz. Galaxy (14.00% AA) Dry Hop for 7 Days

1 tsp Gypsum 20 min
1 tbsp Irish Moss 15 min

1 Vile of White Labs California Ale Yeast, 24 Hr Starter

OG: 1.051
FG: 1.01

I really want to make my first great beer on this one since its my favorite style and I have 8 AG batches under my belt and really feel like I'm close. I'm considering upgrading my equipment to include a fermentation chamber (mini fridge w/ temp controller) and stir plate. Right now I'm just swirling a growler every 30 mins to an hour with the yeast and sugar in.

 

[hophop]

I would ditch the honey malt if it's too sweet. I don't think you need the oats either. I use a simple recipe for pales; 2row, Munich, and some Caramel malt. I mash at 151 and love it. I think your right on target with the new hop selection.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[DoWBrewer]

You have too many roasted grains with the honey and carared. I would go 2-row (Maris Otter) and a crystal 40 or just munich. Keep a bottle of your previous brew and then compare them.

I brewed the same pale-ale recipe for about a year when I was learning to brew all-grain. I found as I dropped grain from my complex recipe that I liked it better and better. My current PA recipe is just Maris Otter, Cara-pils, and crystal 40.

 

[andyhank]

Thanks for the replies. What effect would having too many roasted grains have on the beer? The reason I used the oats was to assist head retention, not really for flavor.

Let me throw out a rough draft of my new recipe with your input considered and see what you think.

9 lbs. Maris Otter
8 oz. Munich 10L
8 oz. Crystal 40

1 oz. Warrior 60
.75 oz Galaxy 10
.5 oz. Simcoe 10
.75 oz. Galaxy 5
.25 oz Simcoe 5
.5 oz. Mosaic 5
.75 oz Galaxy FO
.5 oz Simcoe FO
1.5 oz. Galaxy Dry Hop for 7 days
.75 oz. Simcoe Dry Hop for 7 Days

I'm trying to hop it up a little bit more than the first one. Also, what do you think of melanoidin malt? Maybe just .4 oz to up the malt backbone a little but not over sweeten it.

 

[DoWBrewer]

Thanks for the replies. What effect would having too many roasted grains have on the beer? The reason I used the oats was to assist head retention, not really for flavor.

Let me throw out a rough draft of my new recipe with your input considered and see what you think.

9 lbs. Maris Otter
8 oz. Munich 10L
8 oz. Crystal 40

1 oz. Warrior 60
.75 oz Galaxy 10
.5 oz. Simcoe 10
.75 oz. Galaxy 5
.25 oz Simcoe 5
.5 oz. Mosaic 5
.75 oz Galaxy FO
.5 oz Simcoe FO
1.5 oz. Galaxy Dry Hop for 7 days
.75 oz. Simcoe Dry Hop for 7 Days

I'm trying to hop it up a little bit more than the first one. Also, what do you think of melanoidin malt? Maybe just .4 oz to up the malt backbone a little but not over sweeten it.

That looks good to me. Send me a bottle.

 

[jperry]

Also, what do you think of melanoidin malt? Maybe just .4 oz to up the malt backbone a little but not over sweeten it.

The Munich malt, is there for the malt backbone. Instead of adding melanoidin malt, I'd just up the Munich malt to a pound. Munich malt brings a nice malt presence, to an IPA or a Pale Ale. I'm sure others would agree with me...

 

[andyhank]

I brewed this up yesterday and it went really well. This is the recipe I went with for a 5.5 gallon batch.

10 lbs. Maris Otter
8 oz. CaraPils
8 oz. Crytal 40
8 oz. Melanoidin
4 oz. Rolled Oats

I ended up going pretty experimental with the malt bill (e.g. the oats). I want to make sure there's plenty of body, not too much sweetness but enough to satisfy and a solid backbone to balance out the hops. Mashed for 60 minutes at 153, mashed out at 190 for 10.

Hops schedule:

1 oz. Warrior @ 60
.25 oz. Galaxy @ 30
.5 oz. Simcoe @ 10
.75 oz. Galaxy @10
.5 oz. Simcoe @ 5
.5 oz. Galaxy @ 5
.5 oz. Simcoe @ FO
.5 oz. Galaxy @ FO

Brewsmith had my IBU's 80, pretty high for a PA and probably more of an IPA. I nailed my OG at 1.058 to get an efficiency of 73 and pitched my starter at 65 degrees after chilling the wort in about 35 minutes. It's already bubbling away happily and it's one of the fastest fermentation starts I've had. I used harvested White Labs California Ale yeast in a 24 hour starter. The starter itself was fairly imprecise, I boiled 1 1/2 cups table sugar in about 4 cups of water, chilled it and pitched my harvested yeast into a sanitized growler with the sugar solution and covered it with foil, swirling every time I walked by it. It was bubbling slowly when I pitched it.

Now to wait and pray! I've got a good feeling about it

 

[rklinck]

The starter itself was fairly imprecise, I boiled 1 1/2 cups table sugar in about 4 cups of water, chilled it and pitched my harvested yeast into a sanitized growler with the sugar solution and covered it with foil, swirling every time I walked by it. It was bubbling slowly when I pitched it.

I haven't used liquid yeast in a while, so take this with a grain of salt. I would not make starters with just a sugar water mixture. You should use DME. If the yeast get used to eating plain table sugar, they can get lazy and not want to eat more complex sugars. That can lead to a stalled fermentation or at least a slightly higher FG than intended. I would say that changing from sugar to DME is much more important than worrying about getting a stir plate.

 

[Nuggethead]

I haven't used liquid yeast in a while, so take this with a grain of salt. I would not make starters with just a sugar water mixture. You should use DME. If the yeast get used to eating plain table sugar, they can get lazy and not want to eat more complex sugars. That can lead to a stalled fermentation or at least a slightly higher FG than intended. I would say that changing from sugar to DME is much more important than worrying about getting a stir plate.

This is good advise...

 

[Nuggethead]

It's been my experience that new brewers who are developing a recipe usually go overboard and add to many grain varieties and hop additions. This makes it difficult to track down and correct problems or fine tune. It is sometimes better to start with a basic grain bill, especially with an easier recipe like a Pale Ale. For example, Sierra Nevada's recipe for a 5 gal. batch of Pale is 10lbs 2-row and 12oz 60l. And just 3 hop additions at 60, 45 and flame out. Not saying yours is wrong by any means and it may taste great, but I personally like to keep it simple.
Also, your mash-out should be closer to 168f. 190f is high.
A general starter recipe that I use is 3/4C DME to 1250ml water. I step it up for higher gravities.

 

[OleBrewing]

I would say the naked oats and honey malt may be the ones that added extra sweetness. Pale ales are supposed simple. 2 to 3 malts and 1 to 2 hop varieties. To really nail down ingredients brew a single malt single hop beer then brew another the same way with crystal malts. The crystal malt will affect the perceived bitterness of the beer, so really it is a double and never ending experiment. Need a reason to brew more beer.

Love the munich malt though one of my favorites.