Scuba's Rig Build 2: Judgment Day

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I never really saw any stamping, etc. on it....I can tell you it's a heavy duty industrial cart.....just not intended to be heated, obviously. I know the tubing is a different metal than the shelving.

I really like the unistrut and would recommend using it on top of a cart like you linked to...it's got great weight bearing properties and doesn't flinch at direct flame. If I could do it over, I'd use it in my wood rig. It was about $20 for 10ft of it. I only needed 6' or so. The hardware is solid, and the thing I really like is that it has holes for mounting things, etc. You'll see soon how I remounted the burners, and I'm really happy with it. U-Bolts are AWESOME!! This install was WAY easier than my last rig. People have mentioned that unitstrut is expensive and it is, but not for a small section for just the top of your rig. I would burn it the first few times in open air though, as it's galvanized and creates fumes. Take care to keep it dry and clean, and rusting won't be a problem.
 
So, after having the burners sit on the platform, I realized they were probably not close enough and I was wasting a lot of heat, so I used U-bolts to mount them to the unistrut:

DSC02970.jpg


The underside:

DSC02972.jpg


And both:

DSC02971.jpg


I really like this design. The SQ14 is just the right weight to make this possible....I imagine I could do the same with banjo burners, but the SQ14 is plenty powerful.
 
Here's a video of the burners going full blast. Note that I have very fine control of the burners with the needle valves (ball valves are trickier). I played a bit with the air intakes so you could see the difference in the flame:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-ERx5WZNMM]YouTube - MOV02692 mpeg4[/ame]

:ban::ban::ban:
 
On reply #37 a picture showing the keg on the unistrut I would suggest you add four 3/8"x16 NC bolts 1 1/2" long with washers and nut. Bolt this thru the stut from the bottom with the threads sticking up as studs to center the keg on the strut. Adding more material would be to use 90 degree strut "L" brackets to lock the keg in position. Those are beam clamps you mounted the strut to the wire with, they are intended to secure strut to steel beams for conduit supports for pipe rack runs.
On your first heating thru the stainless mesh you found first hand that stainless has a high expansion rate which you noticed before it began to turn dark red. I was thinking a flame ring around the burners to hold the heat in for more BTU's to the keg bottoms vs heating the area around the burners should help and make the bottles last longer lowering the gas flow. This is where I stop as I switched from burmers years ago to 100% electric heating.
 
Wow! Thanks! I wanted to build mine out of wood by why bother? Very clever and elegant use of found materials. Minimal fabrication. I have to rethink my own approach. Its gotta have wheels...
 
Wood is still a good option....I wouldn't completely rule it out. The thing I like about this rig is that it's half as wide and not so tall I need a ladder. I've basically got it all right where I need it, and can still use gravity for most operations (I hate the march pump).

If you get a cart of some kind, I'd give serious thought to the weight of the full vessels under heat. That will seriously affect the rating of the shelf. I've seen some folks who have taken a large ceramic tile (12x12 or bigger), set the burner on that, and then put the vessel on top. While this adds height, it definitely takes heat out of the equation, and the burners can be easily serviced.
 
That was an interesting question a couple of posts ago, and one I'm concerned about, as I'm about to build a version of this shortly.

Has anyone built one of these with the plastic shelf holders? I am concerned about the heat with them also.

My idea was just to build the shelves you can get at HD, and put Banjo Burners on them. This should correct any problems with the wire shelving. But those plastic shelf holders are a little scary as far as heat goes.
 
I wouldn't even think about trying plastic. You'll be fine if you get a "heavy duty" style shelf with thick gauge metal. It'll be rated for a 1,000 pounds or more, and that's what you'll want to buy. If you place ceramic tile or even durarock on the shelving, you can just place your burners right on the shelf. That'll be enough to protect the shelving, and should hold up to the weight of the vessel. It will raise the height of the vessel, but I guess some things are a compromise.
 
ScubaSteve said:
So, in my best attempt to use the materials at hand, I used the warped and destroyed shelving to my advantage. I made a mid level shelf with a support beam by cutting and bending the original material.

DSC02571.jpg


Whatever metal that stuff was, it was putty compared to the angle grinder :D It's definitely different from the actual support tubing, which required special bits, cutting oil, and elbow grease to drill. The new shelf still allows room for the MLT....I made sure it could fit either the keg or cooler.
Click to expand...
This is genius... I can picture the MLT lurking beneath the keggle as I type, and things are going through my head. Gravity takes the water from the HLT to the MLT, a pump brings it back up, and gravity can take it back out of the boil kettle.

I'm sure that the cost of fabricating this would be relatively cheap (with access to a welder) to negate my nervousness about doing it on a cart that could erupt at any time! I see guys on Craigslist who will weld for $30 an hour with their own gear.... I figure two hours would be enough time for someone to put the frame of something like this together.... hmmm!
 
Well, this cart is pretty beefy...but you could probably weld something very compact, with some custom stuff that would allow you to better manage space.....I'm a big fan of the HLT/BK on top, with the MLT on bottom. It worked quite well!
 
Stand by to stand by, folks, I've got some HUGE changes I'm making to this rig. I won't spoil it all for you, but it includes 220v elements, a web-enabled controller, sanitary fittings, and a RIMS element for on-demand hot water. Stay tuned!
 
So, I've been doing a lot of planning around upgrading this rig, and I had to get my thoughts down on paper. Google Sketchup has been pissing me off; I'll get the hang of it, but I figured I'd just do it the old fashioned way. So here's a "concept" photo:

P1010312.jpg


I'm still trying to figure out how I'm going to fit the RIMS element in, for now, I have it in an upright position to save space. I'd prefer to have it horizontal with the output going up, but I won't be able to tell until I've got all the parts in front of me. I'm also considering a peristaltic pump to eliminate priming/head pressure issues.

:mug:
 
why the sudden switch to electric? it seems you were about done with all your gas setup. now you've got to re-design the rig?
 
I like the use of the loc-line on the MLT--there are some nice spray type heads for loc-line that would give you a nice spray with out having to make a manifold for sparging.



t
 
nbspindel said:
why the sudden switch to electric? it seems you were about done with all your gas setup. now you've got to re-design the rig?
Click to expand...

There's quite a few things more that I did to the rig......including a 1500w bucket heater on a timer in the HLT.....I have dual pumps on switches, etc. I had been using the propane version for about a year and got sick of being in the merciless Chicago cold...not to mention always worrying about running out of fuel. The propane manifold is bolted on, and I will simply remove it. I may be able to construct something mobile using those parts, if I ever want to go on the road.

Unfortunately I'm not where I can get pics of the "current state" of the rig. When I return from Afghanistan, I will document what has been done, and what I plan to do.
 
brrman said:
Thats the same question I was going to ask...
Click to expand...

I know it looks tight, and it is. I'm able to slide a 21" spoon in there and stir things. I can also pull the MLT a bit forward and it's fine. This problem will go away in BrewCart 3.0!
 
So, I've been ceaselessly sourcing valves, fittings, etc. I just bought 2 burly hinged false bottoms for the BK and MLT, for $55. These are 16ga 304SS, plasma cut. I already had a nice false bottom, but the tube was 1/4 or 3/8, and I'm looking at keeping my flow at a minimum of 1/2" throughout the whole system.

Here's a link to my source:

http://vi.ebaydesc.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemVersionDescV4&view=desc&txnid=394635010019&js=-1&it=14+3%2F4%22+Stainless+Steel+Hinged+False+Bottom++Home+brew+&ds=0&viewitemversiondescv4=&item=290364323800&t=1261869554000&bv=mozilla&ssid=0&caz.html=&category=38172&seller=natural_ice_69
 
bonsai4tim said:
I like the use of the loc-line on the MLT--there are some nice spray type heads for loc-line that would give you a nice spray with out having to make a manifold for sparging.
Click to expand...

I've seen the nozzles, but I'm not sure right now if I'll use one. I don't want anything clogging when I recirc. More importantly, the locline is going to be the return for the MLT and it's also going to be my output to the fermenter. All I'll have to do is move it outboard to the fermenter.

I'm incorporating some stuff plumbing-wise that is a little unconventional. As I get more parts, I'll keep posting my progress!
 
Okay, so a few updates....I've been bidding here and there on Ebay (as much as SWMBO will tolerate) and have been sourcing some good parts. Here's my pump, which is going to be a huge improvement over the March 809/ 809-HS:http://cgi.ebay.com/Little-Giant-3-MD-HC-Magnetically-Driven-Pump-New-N-R_W0QQitemZ110479277660QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item19b913fe5c

The inlet is a full 1", and is oriented in a better way. Priming will be a snap, the pump will deal with a lot more head pressure, and it is still food grade and rated for temp. Everyone who has a Little Giant loves it. It's my opinion, but I think the March is overrated, and the Little Giant is underrated.
 
ScubaSteve said:
Okay, so a few updates....I've been bidding here and there on Ebay (as much as SWMBO will tolerate) and have been sourcing some good parts. Here's my pump, which is going to be a huge improvement over the March 809/ 809-HS:http://cgi.ebay.com/Little-Giant-3-MD-HC-Magnetically-Driven-Pump-New-N-R_W0QQitemZ110479277660QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item19b913fe5c

The inlet is a full 1", and is oriented in a better way. Priming will be a snap, the pump will deal with a lot more head pressure, and it is still food grade and rated for temp. Everyone who has a Little Giant loves it. It's my opinion, but I think the March is overrated, and the Little Giant is underrated.
Click to expand...

Steve,

I have never owned a Little Giant pump so I am relying on you to answer my question. Why do you suppose that the Little Giant Pump will be much easier to prime than the March 809. I have a March 809 with a similar pump head arrangement except mine has a 3/4" male and the priming seems no different than my pumps with 1/2" inlet and outlet. What does the Little Giant Pump do that the March 809 doesn't do to make it easier to prime? I am asking because I am never above making a change and selling my three 809's.
 
Well, I guess it has more to do with the orientation of the inlet than the brand of the pump:) The reason why I'm slamming March is that most all of the March pumps out there have the in/out on opposite sides, and you have to mount the inlet below the output. Spatially, this can be a challenge depending on your rig. It can also be difficult to get the air bubble out of the head. Regarding the 1" inlet, I'm thinking the larger the intake, the more "push" you're going to have going into the pump, which should equal better output. I wasn't really impressed with the flow rate of my March. I know you don't want TOO much horsepower because of stuck mashes, but using a regular 809 I could barely get the wort 5 feet in the air in 1/2" silicon tubing. Often times I'd have to disconnect tubing and run the pump outlet into a bucket just to get a good prime, then reconnect and dump the bucket back into my vessel. What a PITA. I just can't see paying so much for a piece of gear that can be so temperamental. Little Giant pumps are cheaper, have a higher GPM, and are less finicky. Iwaki is a good brand too, though they don't have a pump "marketed" as high temp/corrosion. I'm sure they're fine though, I know the Japanese ones are supposed to be sweeeet. I'm just trying to put this info out there so people can see that there are acceptable, food grade, high temp alternatives.:mug: I think it's strange that there's only ONE pump we use in homebrewing, don't you?:confused:
 
Steve,

I have a March pump with the exact orientation as the Little Giant except the inlet is 3/4" male threads. Don't get me wrong, I would love to find a self priming, magnetic head pump that was reasonably priced. They do exist but are terribly high priced. I don't blame you one bit for going to alternative. The one spec I can't find on the LG is the max head. I wonder why?
 
Steve, is there anything slowing the flow to your march pump, like QD's that are not full flow, etc? Even a 1/2" OD soft copper dip tube is restricting.
 
Sawdustguy said:
Steve,

I have a March pump with the exact orientation as the Little Giant except the inlet is 3/4" male threads. Don't get me wrong, I would love to find a self priming, magnetic head pump that was reasonably priced. They do exist but are terribly high priced. I don't blame you one bit for going to alternative. The one spec I can't find on the LG is the max head. I wonder why?
Click to expand...

I honestly couldn't tell you why. I don't think it's that LG is being subversive. The chart I looked at listed up to 15 feet of head, and the pump delivered 300-400 GPH, which is still more than your basic March. I figured 15 feet was more than most of us deal with...I'd only come close when I pump "up" my CFC and to my BK.

Bendavanza- I used the 1/2" silicon tubing and brass coolant QD's the rest of us use. I imagine that could be part of the problem, as the actual ID is 3/8". Still, I'm not a fan of fooling with priming. When I build my new rig, my water supply will be before the pump. All I'll have to do is turn a valve and high pressure water will flood the system, forcing all the air out of the pump and my RIMS chamber.
 
My biggest opposition to the Little Giant pumps for pumping through a CFC or for BK whirlpool is that they are only rated to 200F. If you recirculate boiling wort through your CFC you will be exceeding that. Not sure if it matters, and I've read that others use them above 200F. They sure are quiet though.
 

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