Scottish Export Recipe Opinions?

[Brownyard]

Fumbling towards a nice, darkish, malty 2.5 Gallon BIAB Scottish Export recipe. Anything look glaringly wrong with it?

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/1311356/big-red-willy-scottish-ale

 

[DBhomebrew]

If it were me, and I'm a keep-it-simple kind of guy...

Cut the Special B. If you do use it, 4.4% is quite a lot. I have a few bottles left of a British strong ale that has 4% SpB. It took months for the B to settle down enough to be enjoyable. I think it's altogether out of place in a Scottish beer.

Maybe cut the caramel malt, but I'd use a UK's crystal over Briess. They're more interesting.

I'd also cut the Munich.

A UK yeast. I've made some tasty Scottish ales with 1728, 1084, and Notty.

 

[DBhomebrew]

FWIW

I've been brewing a few batches of a Traquair House approximation. 1.070, 30IBU. 98% GP, 2% roasted. So simple, so delicious.

I also did a 1.044 25IBU GP/EKG SMaSH. I did not feel it was lacking.

 

[BigEd]

Very much agree with DBhomebrew here. That recipe is way over complicated for the style. The Special-B, certainly at 4+% is out of place. If you're going to use crystal use UK malt not North American and the Munich also seems superfluous. Ditch the Special-B along with the Munich (replace with more GP pale malt) and if you want crystal malt use about 5% UK 55L.

 

[TheMadKing]

I have made a few exports this year and I'm entering one in a competition next week so here's what I've learned so far:

Keep it as simple as possible, but you want a complex beer. Keep your IBU under 20

Corn smooths hop bitterness, so I like 0.5lb of corn in mine

You have too much roasted barley.. You only need 1-2 oz to get color. That's going to end up super dark

A little dark brown sugar adds complexity without over complicating. I'd recommend something like (for 5 gallons)

8lb Maris Otter
0.5lb Munich
0.5lb corn
0.5lb British crystal 75
2 oz roasted barley

0.5 lb dark brown sugar in the boil

If you really want to get crazy throw like 4 oz of biscuit malt in there.

WY1728 is a great yeast choice and throws and almost smokey character. Other English yeasts will work but make sure you ferment cool because you want subtle esters

I don't agree with ditching the Munich at all. It's a great choice for rounding out malt character. And the 2022 national homebrew comp gold in this category included 1lb of Munich.

 

[Brownyard]

Thanks for the input guys. I've made some alterations. Any thoughts on Melanoidin instead of Munich dark?

 

[DBhomebrew]

You have to ask yourself whether you are aiming for beer brewed as they do in Scotland or a Scottish style as imagined and brewed by Americans. If the latter, lay on the specialty malts. If the former, trust the UK base malt and a malt-forward yeast.

 

[Brownyard]

You have to ask yourself whether you are aiming for beer brewed as they do in Scotland or a Scottish style as imagined and brewed by Americans. If the latter, lay on the specialty malts. If the former, trust the UK base malt and a malt-forward yeast.

Well, my main exposure had been through American wee heavy versions. Ultimately, I'm going towards a lighter version of an Old Chub or Dirty Bastard. Malty and fairly sweet, without the alcohol bite. I'm limited to dry yeast, due to my location.

 

[DBhomebrew]

Well, my main exposure had been through American wee heavy versions. Ultimately, I'm going towards a lighter version of an Old Chub or Arrogant Bastard. Malty and fairly sweet, without the alcohol bite. I'm limited to dry yeast, due to my location.

You're well-served following a recipe such as the one @TheMadKing shared. Crystal, Munich, etc.

 

[jdauria]

Brewing my first Scottish Export myself next month, using the recipe from Mean Brews, which takes numerous award winning (aka mostly American) recipes and then comes up with the mean averages of the recipes creates a recipe based on that. Have brewed a few of their recipes and they have been fantastic. So I am looking at:

77% Maris Otter
10% Crystal 40
5% Honey Malt
4% Munich
2% Crystal 120
2% Pale Chocolate.

 

[BongoYodeler]

Brewing my first Scottish Export myself next month, using the recipe from Mean Brews, which takes numerous award winning (aka mostly American) recipes and then comes up with the mean averages of the recipes creates a recipe based on that. Have brewered a few of their recipes and they have been fantastic. So I am looking at:

77% Maris Otter
10% Crystal 40
5% Honey Malt
4% Munich
2% Crystal 120
2% Pale Chocolate.

I've watched that video, as well as a few others of his. A Wee Heavy is next on my list to brew, but I'm still tweaking the recipe as I wait for the weather to cool a bit.

 

[kevin58]

You can't get more Scottish or accurate than these... recipes are based directly from the brew log books.

https://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2016/07/lets-brew-1898-william-younger-80.html
https://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2015/04/lets-brew-wednesday-1957-robert-younger.html
Anyone interested in Scottish beer and brewing should really check out Ron Pattinson's blog. He as written and posted there hundreds of articles and has published two books on the subject. The second is crammed full of recipes taken from the brewing records.

https://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2015/04/lets-brew-wednesday-1957-robert-younger.html

 

[BigEd]

WY1728 is a great yeast choice and throws and almost smokey character. Other English yeasts will work but make sure you ferment cool because you want subtle esters

I don't agree with ditching the Munich at all. It's a great choice for rounding out malt character. And the 2022 national homebrew comp gold in this category included 1lb of Munich.

WY1728 is a great choice. I just saw that the OP only has access to dried yeast. I don't know if there is anything out there in dried form that approaches the characteristics of the 1728.

I'm still going to say ditch the Munich unless like your example you are trying to stimulate the senses of a judging panel at an American homebrew competition.

 

[DBhomebrew]

I don't know if there is anything out there in dried form that approaches the characteristics of the 1728.

Traquair reportedly uses Notty.

 

[TheMadKing]

You can't get more Scottish or accurate than these... recipes are based directly from the brew log books.

https://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2016/07/lets-brew-1898-william-younger-80.html
https://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2015/04/lets-brew-wednesday-1957-robert-younger.html
Anyone interested in Scottish beer and brewing should really check out Ron Pattinson's blog. He as written and posted there hundreds of articles and has published two books on the subject. The second is crammed full of recipes taken from the brewing records.

https://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2015/04/lets-brew-wednesday-1957-robert-younger.html

Actually there's a great interview where Ron and Brad Smith chat about the bjcp defined Scottish ales styles and since that was recorded the BJCP modified the styles to incorporate Ron's findings and guidance. I believe you'll find that the 2021 guidelines reflect a more traditional Scottish ale

Overall Impression: A moderate-strength, malty beer with light caramel, toast, toffee, and fruit flavors. A slight roast dryness offsets the residual sweetness in the finish, with the bitterness perceived only to keep the beer from being cloying.

Characteristic Ingredients: At its simplest, pale ale malt and colored malt, but can also use sugars, corn, wheat, crystal malts, colorants, and a variety of other grains. Clean yeast. Soft water. No peat-smoked malt.

 

[kevin58]

Actually there's a great interview where Ron and Brad Smith chat about the bjcp defined Scottish ales styles and since that was recorded the BJCP modified the styles to incorporate Ron's findings and guidance. I believe you'll find that the 2021 guidelines reflect a more traditional Scottish ale

Overall Impression: A moderate-strength, malty beer with light caramel, toast, toffee, and fruit flavors. A slight roast dryness offsets the residual sweetness in the finish, with the bitterness perceived only to keep the beer from being cloying.

Characteristic Ingredients: At its simplest, pale ale malt and colored malt, but can also use sugars, corn, wheat, crystal malts, colorants, and a variety of other grains. Clean yeast. Soft water. No peat-smoked malt.

I didn't realize I had said anything negative about the BJCP. I pointed to some early recipes and called them "Scottish and accurate". And since the both came from the log books of brewery's in Scotland I fail to see how that triggered you.

 

[AlexKay]

A slight roast dryness offsets the residual sweetness in the finish.

Dunno about you, but when I hear “slight roast dryness,” I think “Simpsons double roasted crystal.”

++ on using all UK malts (base, but especially any crystal.)

 

[BongoYodeler]

Dunno about you, but when I hear “slight roast dryness,” I think “Simpsons double roasted crystal.”

++ on using all UK malts (base, but especially any crystal.)

The recipe I'm putting together has a small amount of Simpsons DRC.

 

[TheMadKing]

I didn't realize I had said anything negative about the BJCP. I pointed to some early recipes and called them "Scottish and accurate". And since the both came from the log books of brewery's in Scotland I fail to see how that triggered you.

I'm not sure where the hostility is coming from friend? I was not "triggered" by anything at all (I deplore that term btw) and had no negative tone to my post. I was not arguing with you but simply adding to your great information, and rebutting some of the earlier posts from others that implied a stark difference between "American" and "Scottish" Scottish ales. Since American brewed version (assuming they are brewed to the bjcp guidelines) should now be very similar to the recipes you posted given the updated guidelines.

Cheers

 

[TheMadKing]

Dunno about you, but when I hear “slight roast dryness,” I think “Simpsons double roasted crystal.”

++ on using all UK malts (base, but especially any crystal.)

Personally I think of brown malt. I think it's the perfect way to achieve roasted dryness in any beer

 

[DBhomebrew]

rebutting some of the earlier posts from others that implied a stark difference between "American" and "Scottish" Scottish ales. Since American brewed version (assuming they are brewed to the bjcp guidelines) should now be very similar to the recipes you posted given the updated guidelines.

I wonder when they'll announce their new recipe.

https://www.oskarblues.com/beer/old-chub/
The new BJCP guidelines are welcome. Yes, Ron was consulted. But, they only hold power in a competition. American brewers in garages and craft breweries alike will continue to brew Wee Heavies (as much a thing as ESB) with smoked and even peated malt, barely any hops, tons of Breiss caramel malt, etc.

As a rule, American interpretations of European styles are different than their inspirations. Bigger, bolder, more extreme. Heavier on specialty malts, less attention to subtle balance.

OP was looking for an Old Chub type ale. "Bodacious" amounts of specialty malts including beechwood smoked. This is very, very different from the nearly-SMaSH historical recipes @kevin58 shared. OP is seeking a pre-2021 BJCP American Scotch Ale.

That said. I don't think anyone was intending offense above. Me, pointing out there's a difference between Scottish and American -Scottish beers. @kevin58 sharing historical Scottish recipes. @TheMadKing sharing their tried and true recipe and also that the BJCP is getting better in their style descriptions. All good here.

I look forward to when American commercial brewers skew closer to the original European styles. I might stop homebrewing.

 

[TheMadKing]

I wonder when they'll announce their new recipe.

https://www.oskarblues.com/beer/old-chub/
The new BJCP guidelines are welcome. Yes, Ron was consulted. But, they only hold power in a competition. American brewers in garages and craft breweries alike will continue to brew Wee Heavies (as much a thing as ESB) with smoked and even peated malt, barely any hops, tons of Breiss caramel malt, etc.

As a rule, American interpretations of European styles are different than their inspirations. Bigger, bolder, more extreme. Heavier on specialty malts, less attention to subtle balance.

OP was looking for an Old Chub type ale. "Bodacious" amounts of specialty malts including beechwood smoked. This is very, very different from the nearly-SMaSH historical recipes @kevin58 shared. OP is seeking a pre-2021 BJCP American Scotch Ale.

That said. I don't think anyone was intending offense above. Me, pointing out there's a difference between Scottish and American -Scottish beers. @kevin58 sharing historical Scottish recipes. @TheMadKing sharing their tried and true recipe and also that the BJCP is getting better in their style descriptions. All good here.

I look forward to when American commercial brewers skew closer to the original European styles. I might stop homebrewing.

No argument on anything here at all. I'm a traditionalist for the most part and tend to brew closer to the original European styles most of the time. For example my best bitter is straight from fullers legers courtesy of Ron, with a couple minor tweaks for ingredient availability.

Luckily there are a few commercial places getting back to the original versions. There's even a cask ale room opening up in Atlanta!

 

[_BullDog_]

Agree with everyone on keeping it simple. My Scottish ale is probably the best crowd pleaser beer I make. It is a great darker beer for those that say they dont like dark beers.

Here is the recipe I’ve settle on after brewing it for several years now.

9.5# golden promise
3oz roasted barley
3oz carafe III
1oz EKG @60
1oz EKG @10
Scottish ale yeast