Saisons and age

[Avinatore]

Hi guys,

I just bottled my saison that I consider one of my best brews by now. I brewed it one more time before and I think it's awesome. It's pretty classic - dupont wy3724, noble hops, pils and wheat are the malt base, with some honey and some spices. The FG is 1.007 and the OG was 1.056 which makes it 6,5% ABV.

I just found out that there will be a big competition where I live in June 2015 and one of the styles they will be judging will be saison.

I was wondering how will 8 months of aging affect this beer? should I enter with this beer that I brewed and bottled today, or should I maybe consider brewing another batch of the same beer in couple of months to enter with a fresher version of it?

So, I would like some experiences with saison aging, how does it affect this style, am I going to lose those beautiful phenolic spicy aromatics and flavors in 8 months? Or maybe it's going to be even better?

thanks!

 

[SuliBrew]

my last bottle of saison is always the best. you can save a few bottles of what you have now, and brew again in March for July.

 

[Avinatore]

my last bottle of saison is always the best. you can save a few bottles of what you have now, and brew again in March for July.

I know I can, but I was asking is it worth it? To be honest I had some other beers in plan, but if this will make a significant difference I would brew it again because I want THIS saison recipe to be judged, and I want the judges to taste the beer at it's peak. So when does a saison of this strength gets it's peak?

 

[ChefRex]

I think aging does nothing but good things to a saison and is one of the reasons I bottle sometimes.
I had a keg setup when I started brewing and only bottled a few beers that didn't fit in a keg, one being a saison, I had them at around nine months and had wished I bottled them all.

 

[SuliBrew]

My point is that the older the better. Take a look at the history. Made in autumn and winter for summer consumption. Personally, I can't wait that long. by the time my saisons are ready, its usually 2 months after brew day, so my pipeline is relatively slim. So, they don't last. I did hide one i brewed in spring and recently polished it off. It was the best of the batch. cleared up nicely, was crisp, tart, spicy and dry.

 

[Calder]

Do the test yourself. Save some of the bottles, and also brew in March, and do your own comparison before deciding to send in a bottle.

Report back with your evaluation next May/June.

 

[mlakota]

I agree with saving some bottles and rebrewing then deciding which you like better when the time for the competition comes.

To me, aged saison starts to take on a wine-like flavor as it ages, espcially higher alcohol versions. Not necessarily a bad thing, but only you can decide how you want the beer to be presented and tastes best.

 

[Singletrack]

If aging, what temp? Or does it matter?

 

[pdxal]

Saisons should age well.
Something nobody has mentioned, though, is that a simple malt bill will likely finish below 1.007. You could end up with over carbonation if the 3724 completes fermentation in the bottle and ends lower than 1.007. How long did the previous version last after bottling before you finished it? What was your mash temp? Did you raise the fermentation temperature on this batch to ensure the Dupont yeast truly finished?

 

[Avinatore]

Saisons should age well.
Something nobody has mentioned, though, is that a simple malt bill will likely finish below 1.007. You could end up with over carbonation if the 3724 completes fermentation in the bottle and ends lower than 1.007. How long did the previous version last after bottling before you finished it? What was your mash temp? Did you raise the fermentation temperature on this batch to ensure the Dupont yeast truly finished?

the fermentation temperature reached 89 F at one point. Held it like that for 8 days, then slowly started to lower the temperature over the next days down to 71 F.

I did have around 8% honey added to the wort at the end of the boil.

this beer fermented for 34 days. first gravity reading (two weeks ago) showed 1.008 then yesterday after two weeks dropped for only one point at 1.007. I thought more than a month should be enough to make this yeast make up it's mind.

the airlock was still bubbling on the day of the bottling though, but maybe a bubble per 20 minutes or so. I thought it was just the excess CO2 releasing.

Do you really think it could go lower than that in the bottles after 34 days of fermentation in the fermentor?

 

[rupert130]

Do you really think it could go lower than that in the bottles after 34 days of fermentation in the fermentor?

Yes. I had a saison that was in the fermentor for 45 days and still ended up producing bottle bombs. 3724 is super finicky and slow to finish.

 

[Avinatore]

Yes. I had a saison that was in the fermentor for 45 days and still ended up producing bottle bombs. 3724 is super finicky and slow to finish.

at what gravity did you bottle?

 

[SuliBrew]

my last saison with wlp 565 finished at 1.004. I don't think .003 of additional fermentation will create bottle bombs. If you bottled when it was 1.020 or 1.015, then you would have an issue. I bottled with about 5 oz of regular cane sugar so it would be a little more carbonated than say a stout. I kept mine at room temps to condition in the bottle for about a month(sediment will start to form), then they go into the fridge for at least a week. unlike with humans, with regards to saisons, age is on your side.

 

[pdxal]

my last saison with wlp 565 finished at 1.004. I don't think .003 of additional fermentation will create bottle bombs. If you bottled when it was 1.020 or 1.015, then you would have an issue. I bottled with about 5 oz of regular cane sugar so it would be a little more carbonated than say a stout. I kept mine at room temps to condition in the bottle for about a month(sediment will start to form), then they go into the fridge for at least a week. unlike with humans, with regards to saisons, age is on your side.

Here's a useful link for gravity points fermenting to produce carbonation from Kai Troester:

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Accurately_Calculating_Sugar_Additions_for_Carbonation

The relevant information is at the bottom, just above the final remarks: 1 gravity point drop produces 0.51vol CO2. 3 gravity points would cause 1.53vol CO2, and in a beer primed to carbonate 2.5vol CO2 you could have significant overcarbonation with the residual extract fermentation.

 

[SuliBrew]

Here's a useful link for gravity points fermenting to produce carbonation from Kai Troester:

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Accurately_Calculating_Sugar_Additions_for_Carbonation

The relevant information is at the bottom, just above the final remarks: 1 gravity point drop produces 0.51vol CO2. 3 gravity points would cause 1.53vol CO2, and in a beer primed to carbonate 2.5vol CO2 you could have significant overcarbonation with the residual extract fermentation.

I believe one gravity point = .004. So you would be looking at .38 Vol CO2 for a drop from 1.007 to 1.004.

Please let me know if I'm off base here.

 

[pdxal]

I believe one gravity point = .004. So you would be looking at .38 Vol CO2 for a drop from 1.007 to 1.004.

Please let me know if I'm off base here.

1.001 would be 1 gravity point above water, 1 gravity point=0.001. 1° Plato=.004, which is 2vol CO2. You would have a 1.53 vol CO2 for 1.007 to 1.004 with a 3 point drop in gravity. Did you read the article?

 

[TipsySaint]

it's possible it will drop and it could over carb but test the batch and send in the best one!

Also share the recipe!

 

[Avinatore]

thanks for the advice. my saison grain bill was something like this:

Pilsner malt 61,4%
Munich Type I 8,8%
Pale Wheat malt 12,3%
Caramunich Type I 4,4%
Oats 4,4%
Honey 8,8%.

I hope the Munich and Caramunich malts from this grain bill are the reason it stopped at 1.007 and I hope it will not ferment more in the bottles.