Safety & Usability Considerations - Upstairs Brewery

[Nic0]

I recently bought a new old house, and am starting to plan for converting a portion of an upstairs "bonus" room to my brewery. I'm seeking suggestions and advice on safety considerations as well as usability.

The room was once attic space that was converted to living space... foundation was reinforced, 2x12 were put on top of what was already there. I found water lines, drain lines, gas line upstairs. The room is climate controlled and has a few windows as well. Based on how messy I am with brewing in the past, I'd like to use some sort of floor drain for at least part of it.

Here are some thoughts I already had:

• Ventaltion of room for combustion gasses
• CO & methane detectors
• Fire extinguishers conveniently located
• Possible Sprinkler system

I have the whole room at my disposal, haven't gotten into any specific layout plans yet, just trying to see what other folks have done. The ceiling is sloped due to the roof so some areas can make my hit my head.

Thanks!

Nic

 

[45_70sharps]

If you are brewing indoors, upstairs would be fine to me.
Are you looking at gas? I see you mentioned gas lines.

My concern would be a good quality indoor ( kitchen ) gas burner and a very good exhaust fan.
I don't know about a floor drain. The floor isn't concrete so implying that a drain would make things OK is going to lead to issues.
A good durable flooring and a handy mop would be my first choice on that.
I keep one of those cheesy swiffer things that has replaceable pads and a spray bottle on it to do quick cleaning and mop when it's time.

 

[VegasJ]

I would worry more about the weight of standing drums, kegs, brew pots etc etc...

how big are the batches you brew? 5 ga I wouldn't worry much about the floor framing... unless you keep in one area 10 or so full kegs.

But if you brew 55-100 gallons... I'd worry more about the floor system & weight.

 

[45_70sharps]

Most folks aren't doing 55 or 100 gallons at a time.
Even 20 gallons would be a much larger batch than most people brew and would only be somewhere around 180 pounds with a container.
less than many adults weight.

 

[Nic0]

Yeah I'm small potatoes. Everything I've ever done were 5 gal batches. I'm about to do some 15.5 gal keg to kettle conversions, so I plan on doing some 10 gallon batches. If I was doing 55 gal batches I would probably be setting up shop on commercial property vs my upstairs room at home.

However, I envisioned a large "shower" to have up there. But just the floor. Basically make a big shower pan (how big is yet to be determined, but SWAG of 5x10 feet. This way if anything in the area springs a leak, boils over, or whatever, it just goes down the drain instead of through the floor and into the rooms below. But I would guess that shower pans are heavy ish, somewhat similar to pouring concrete. But I dunno, haven't researched heavily. But at that point I might want to take a second look at what the structure is capable of holding. I'll have to go back and double check how they framed the floor but it looked to maybe be 12" OC with some metal braces forming an X periodically placed between the joists. I cut a hole in the floor last night trying to locate the water lines according to the 35 year old plans for when this area was converted from attic space. Having an old house is kind of an adventure and fun, much to my surprise. I may add a bathroom upstairs while I'm already hacking up everything.

Thanks for the suggestions! I hadn't thought about indoor burners vs outdoor. But whatever the case, I plan to make it a safe work environment.

 

[lonetexan]

My suggestion is to plan for the worst case scenario...full amount of wort on the floor! So, if you are starting from scratch, put in a waterproof membrane like you would for a shower pan and a floor drain. The next thing would be to go electric if possible. No worries about CO, just the boil off water to expel through a ventilation system. Other than that, it sounds like you are good to go unless you plan on making up a bijillion gallons of beer...

 

[45_70sharps]

I'm not sure how much construction you've done but a giant shower floor is an ambitious plan.
Obviously you aren't going to order a giant pre made fiberglass pan so you would probably be looking at tile.
Lots of work, money and weight.
that's not even mentioning the fact that you need to slope the floor to the drain. Depending on the size of the room you are probably looking at building up the edges an inch or two. Probably needs to be with the mud base you put the tile on.
Next is getting a center drain to drain to the existing pipe. You will have to cross floor joists.
Now you have a sloped floor to work with.
You cant really put the drain anywhere besides the center. Your floor modification gets more extreme if you have to drain from the farthest point in the room.
Don't expect existing doors and door jambs to work. There is now a sloped floor that's two inches higher there.
If the room isn't the whole upstairs, you have to transition floor levels.
Now let's talk resale on this oddly modified house.......

Keep it simple. Something durable and water resistant.

 

[jpalarchio]

Switch to electric?

 

[conneryis007]

2 things:

I put in a vote for electric brewing. Its not as hard to set up as one might imagine, there are plans all over this site. Its way safer to use indoors and doesn't require a high powered ventilation system, just possibly a smaller vent system for humidity/steam when brewing. Electric brewing can even be done with 110/120v heating elements (albeit more of them) if you don't have 240.

Take a look at rubber sheeting, aka pond liner, for the floor. They make many varieties, including those that can withstand boiling temperatures. It might be way easier to make a "bathtub" floor, coming up a couple inches on every side, than a drained floor. I did a grow-room floor like this once and it was easy enough to just shop-vac and mop any liquids that spilled. When I pulled it up after I was done using the room, I was surprised that the hardwood floor under the rubber wasn't damaged in the slightest!

 

[Hopper5000]

latest version of Brew your own has a good article on how to setup your brew space, check it out

 

[Dan]

***Sorry for the book... this project just seems like fun***

Just throwing out rambling thoughts here... they're worth the paper they're written on.

You are brewing in an attic so third floor? How are navigating the stairs, old house steep winding stairs?

You're concerned about liquids from past experience so thinking about putting in what sounds to be an expensive shower floor drain. Does this mean you plan to brew here for many years to come? Does this mean you plan to clean your equipment up there or you just spill, boil over and regularly forget and leave ballvalves open? (I sound like a jerk, please don't take it that way) I think you have a great opportunity with this room. I'm truly interested.

If you are just being cautious and trying to protect the lower levels in the event of a moderate spillage mishap.. probably just seal the floors as others recommended. Keep some damage control liquid absorbant material at the ready. Installing a deep sink with hot/cold water and drainage seems like a good idea though. Very handy and much clean up could be done there.

I am curious about the cleaning. I think you mentioned putting in a bathroom on the same floor. Bathtubs work great for cleaning equipment and toilets are good for dumping trub. It would be a convenient place toclean and not have to haul brewing equipment up and down the stairs on a regular basis especially as years progress. No matter what, you'll probably be hauling fermenter buckets and, eghads! glass carboys down stairs. Unless you rig up some way of draining the boil kettle to the lower level where you will probably ferment anyway due to lower temps. That would be simple as a long drain tube.

I'm guessing the room is bigger than 5' x 10' but how much would an HLT burner and Boil kettle burner and possibly a mash tun burner heat the room, especially in summer? What kind of ventilation do you opt for? If you use propane will your home owner's insurance allow it inside the house? If radiant heat won't present a problem could you use natural gas instead? I don't know about where you live but for me it is significantly less than propane.

If you go propane the carbon monoxide and I believe even natural gas at the BTU levels brewing burners put out need vented. No matter you go gas or electric what about the moisture created from brewing inside? I have no experience brewing inside but a lot of steam is generated during a 10 gallon batch. Would that present a problem over the years?

Even with electric the moisture created still probably needs to go somewhere beside inside your house. Maybe a dehumidifier would fit that bill independent of the heat source.

Might sound like I'm trying to dissuade you but I'm not.


Like I said at first.. my 2 pennies. Hope you have many replies with better ideas than mine.



Dan

 

[pigroaster]

Why not set up the whole floor like a ceramic tile large shower floor with raised lips on the side walls?.I am sure shower floor kits are out there available. They have the orange bubble plastic to act as a floating membrane for this type of project. All spills could be hosed down the drain which has tapered areas out from it? Resale . Think spa room with a hot tub in it! How about a sauna room?. Perhaps you can get lucky and get another brew lover interested, Take your time and do it right! Keep us posted.

 

[Nic0]

Thanks, all, for the suggestions! Sorry I didn't get back sooner. It was a busy weekend.

***Sorry for the book... this project just seems like fun***

Just throwing out rambling thoughts here... they're worth the paper they're written on.

You are brewing in an attic so third floor? How are navigating the stairs, old house steep winding stairs?

You're concerned about liquids from past experience so thinking about putting in what sounds to be an expensive shower floor drain. Does this mean you plan to brew here for many years to come? Does this mean you plan to clean your equipment up there or you just spill, boil over and regularly forget and leave ballvalves open? (I sound like a jerk, please don't take it that way) I think you have a great opportunity with this room. I'm truly interested.

If you are just being cautious and trying to protect the lower levels in the event of a moderate spillage mishap.. probably just seal the floors as others recommended. Keep some damage control liquid absorbant material at the ready. Installing a deep sink with hot/cold water and drainage seems like a good idea though. Very handy and much clean up could be done there.

I am curious about the cleaning. I think you mentioned putting in a bathroom on the same floor. Bathtubs work great for cleaning equipment and toilets are good for dumping trub. It would be a convenient place toclean and not have to haul brewing equipment up and down the stairs on a regular basis especially as years progress. No matter what, you'll probably be hauling fermenter buckets and, eghads! glass carboys down stairs. Unless you rig up some way of draining the boil kettle to the lower level where you will probably ferment anyway due to lower temps. That would be simple as a long drain tube.

I'm guessing the room is bigger than 5' x 10' but how much would an HLT burner and Boil kettle burner and possibly a mash tun burner heat the room, especially in summer? What kind of ventilation do you opt for? If you use propane will your home owner's insurance allow it inside the house? If radiant heat won't present a problem could you use natural gas instead? I don't know about where you live but for me it is significantly less than propane.

If you go propane the carbon monoxide and I believe even natural gas at the BTU levels brewing burners put out need vented. No matter you go gas or electric what about the moisture created from brewing inside? I have no experience brewing inside but a lot of steam is generated during a 10 gallon batch. Would that present a problem over the years?

Even with electric the moisture created still probably needs to go somewhere beside inside your house. Maybe a dehumidifier would fit that bill independent of the heat source.

Might sound like I'm trying to dissuade you but I'm not.


Like I said at first.. my 2 pennies. Hope you have many replies with better ideas than mine.



Dan

No offence taken, Dan, I appreciate the critical thinking you have going on. I'll try to answer some of these questions:

First off, it's actually the second floor, it was once attic space that was converted to living space around 35 years ago. It's just a big room, I've attached a blurry photo, but it's roughly 16' x 36', with a height of 8'4" at the peak, with walls around 3' and 4', which can be seen if you look closely. There's just one single flight staircase to go straight up. If I actually end up using this room, I plan only having to haul raw materials (grain, hops, etc) up, and finished product down. Grain isn't bad but several gallons of finished product could prove annoying to haul up/down stairs, especially as I age (27 right now). I've considered adding a dumbwaiter too, but I don't want to have to tear into structureal walls, and unless I want a foot wide elevator, that's probably what I'd have to do.

Definitely would put ventalation of some sort. Not exactly sure what, but would be doing some math to figure out what kind of CFM rating I would need to keep it dry and keep the combustion gasses flowing out. It's a climate controlled room, meaning there are vents from the HVAC, but depending on how much heat is generated, it may not really help and might need suplemental heating/cooling. I did plan on doing fermentation up there with a modified fridge/freezer to keep the temps contstant.

I will take electric into consideration.

Another option, since I'd like to keep my garage acting as a garage, is building an "outbuilding." The garage is detached and a little ways from the house, but between the house and the garage is a concrete pad somebody poured at some point. There are no holes or anything in it, just a nice little 10' x 14' pad. I figure someone had a shed or something sitting on it at some time. I could build a dedicated brewery on top of this (not anchor to concrete, just set it on top, perhaps using storage shed plans and make a few modifications. I would still want to run water supply lines and electrical power as well, but I could continue to use propane. However I do have natural gas available, I could dig a trench and run gas line to the building as well. Not sure if drain line would be required by law or not. If not, I could just have a drain in the floor and run a pipe outside to spill out in the yard, since it'd pretty much just be water, trub, etc but nothing from a toilet. Then if I ever moved, I could just disconnect the plumbing and theoretically haul that building, and not have to rebuild the brewery. For winter fermentations though I would need a means of keeping that building from getting TOO cold.


Photos below are (1) Picture of the upstairs room from the doorway and (2) Satellite photo of property.
Annnd..... GO!

 

[hedbutter]

I'd vote for something on the concrete pad. I currently have to move all of my brewing stuff up a flight of steps to brew, back down with the wort to ferment and then up 2 flights to the kegerator when its ready, and i really wish i could get everything on 1 level.

 

[Dan]

+1 on the concrete pad! I think it would be much better than using up a room in the house for some of the reasons mentioned.

Your attic room is awesome. You could redirect your thinking and make it a social room, bar, TV, games etc. Good luck man.

 

[cheesehed007]

We've (the company I work for) have converted many bonus rooms to media rooms/home theaters. Looks like a great spot for that kinda thing although that vent stack in the middle of the room takes up some valuable space. Good luck! I too vote for the slab option.