royally screwed up my mash - should I dump this wort?

[thunderaxe]

so i started brewing a nelson sauvin single-hop pale ale earlier today. i seemed to reach my strike temperature much quicker than i expected, so i mashed in and let it sit for an hour. after the mash i noticed that i was able to squeeze out the grain bag with my bare hands without burning them. it wasn't until i was heating the wort to a boil that i realized i'd been using the faulty thermometer (that i really should've thrown out instead of keeping it around in the hopes i might one day be able to fix it) and i'd mashed much too low; but i'd also in the meantime heated the probably-starchy wort high enough (~180f, measured by my actual working thermometer) to denature the enzymes.

i let the wort cool down to my actual desired mash temperature (154f) and re-mashed the grains but i figure at this point without the enzymes there's no point and i probably just have a big pot of starch-water. it tastes sweet but i figure that's probably the simple sugars and is no indication as to the presence of maltose. i don't have any iodine to test it.

i figure at this point it's probably better to dump the wort and try again another day -- it's only about $9 worth of grains -- rather than throwing a bunch of good expensive hops into a questionable wort.

thoughts?

 

[MrAverageGuy]

I did something like that while attempting a wheat wine - mashed at 141....the result was alcoholic, but thin. Your call!

 

[MrPowers]

Personally, i’d probably dump it rather than waste the Nelson.

I know a lot of people say to never dump a beer before it’s carbonated in your glass, but this is really a cost benefit question. Would you rather potentially waste the Nelson, or waste the grain and time?

 

[ancientmariner52]

You could freeze it, and put it through the mash with fresh malt, a pound or two at a time.

Unless you have deep emotional attachments to this malt, probably should use it for baking or something.

 

[thunderaxe]

You could freeze it, and put it through the mash with fresh malt, a pound or two at a time.

Unless you have deep emotional attachments to this malt, probably should use it for baking or something.

i don't have the freezer space for that, sounds like more trouble than it's worth, too.

 

[ancientmariner52]

Agreed, just throwing out options. I'd dump it, me.

 

[thunderaxe]

Personally, i’d probably dump it rather than waste the Nelson.

I know a lot of people say to never dump a beer before it’s carbonated in your glass, but this is really a cost benefit question. Would you rather potentially waste the Nelson, or waste the grain and time?

that's what i'm thinking too. i'm pretty early in the process and it'd be not only a lot of hops but a lot more time and work (whirlpooling, chilling, dry hopping, racking, bottling) to see this one through to the end. better to abort at this point.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Measure the gravity - don't guess. If it's high enough, I'd go ahead but drop the hopping a bit - it'll probably ferment a bit more than planned. At some stage during heating, you went through the ideal conversion range - enzymes work remarkably quickly once in this range so I'd expect your gravity is not far off what you targeted. An alternative is to freeze the wort in containers and use it for yeast starters.

 

[thunderaxe]

Measure the gravity - don't guess. If it's high enough, I'd go ahead but drop the hopping a bit - it'll probably ferment a bit more than planned. At some stage during heating, you went through the ideal conversion range - enzymes work remarkably quickly once in this range so I'd expect your gravity is not far off what you targeted. An alternative is to freeze the wort in containers and use it for yeast starters.

wouldn't dissolved starches also contribute to the OG of the wort? or not on the same scale as converted sugars?

 

[Gnomebrewer]

My understanding is that starch won't impact the gravity measured with a hydrometer, because it isn't soluble in water. That may not be correct though.

 

[thunderaxe]

OG measured about 10 points lower than i was aiming for. i dumped it, i figure the peace of mind alone is worth it. i would be stressing about this for the next 2 weeks if i didn't.

 

[MrPowers]

OG measured about 10 points lower than i was aiming for. i dumped it, i figure the peace of mind alone is worth it. i would be stressing about this for the next 2 weeks if i didn't.

I’d pitch the thermometer before you try this one again.

 

[RM-MN]

Something for you to ponder for future brews. Malted barley has an excess of the enzymes needed to convert the starch. I might have heated the grain bed to 156-158 and added a couple pounds of fresh 2-row and let its enzymes work on the unconverted starches. It might not reach quite to your expected OG but it certainly could have come close.

 

[eric19312]

wouldn't dissolved starches also contribute to the OG of the wort? or not on the same scale as converted sugars?

No

It has to get converted into sugar to impact gravity. It is fairly easy to use gravity in the mash tun as indicator of whether mash is fully converted. This technique is explained here under the conversion efficiency heading.
http://www.braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Understanding_Efficiency

 

[ESBrewer]

As I undestand, starch granules will dissolve in water when heated (gelatinization) and they start breaking down to constituents (amylose/amylopectin) that are soluble carbohydrates and will affect gravity. In general, most of the starch/amylopectin/amylose is soon converted (by amylase enzymes) to dextrins and sugars during the mash so after proper mash you would expect wort to contain mainly dextrins (sugar chains) and several types of simple sugars. Dextrins and sugars will be soluble and will contribute to gravity as well. Dextrins are less sweet than sugars because of longer glucose chains and they are nonfermentable. Most of the sugar (glucose, fructose and maltose are abundant in wort) can be fermented by yeast, but in case of maltotriose it depends on the yeast strain. Dextrins and some of the maltotriose will impact the FG of the beer.

 

[Gravity]

I had a similar issue about a month ago, I brewed an IPA and was having trouble with my sparge water coming to temp. Something was wrong with the burners where it only let out a small flame and it took almost triple the time for it to get to temp.

In the mean time the mash was dropping temp and wound up somewhere in the 140s maybe. I finished the brew and the beer is light, watery and thin, yet alcoholic.. The hop aroma and flavor is there however not at all what I was intending. Its probably one of my worst beers. Its still drinkable and I share it with my friends, I call it a petite IPA, a session ipa for beginners

It may be worth kegging it and seeing where it goes.

 

[BrewKaiser]

OG measured about 10 points lower than i was aiming for. i dumped it, i figure the peace of mind alone is worth it. i would be stressing about this for the next 2 weeks if i didn't.

Understandable to dump rather than throw good money and effort after bad given the expense of NS hops.

Another option would have been to boil for 30 minutes to sanitize and then transfer to sanitized mason jars for use as future yeast starter wort. Typical starter wort OG is 1.040 so generally below what most of us target for pales and such these days.

 

[thunderaxe]

Something for you to ponder for future brews. Malted barley has an excess of the enzymes needed to convert the starch. I might have heated the grain bed to 156-158 and added a couple pounds of fresh 2-row and let its enzymes work on the unconverted starches. It might not reach quite to your expected OG but it certainly could have come close.

this occurred to me too and i would've done it if i'd had any 2-row left. unfortunately i used up all that i had in this batch.

 

[thunderaxe]

Another option would have been to boil for 30 minutes to sanitize and then transfer to sanitized mason jars for use as future yeast starter wort. Typical starter wort OG is 1.040 so generally below what most of us target for pales and such these days.

i might've done this if i had the fridge/freezer space but my GF would've killed me had i tried LOL.