Roasted Grain: Beginning AND End of Mash

[hanuswalrus]

I'm planning on brewing a moderate ABV oatmeal stout within the next couple weeks and I want it to be delicious, but I also want to experiment a little. I've always added my roasted grains at the beginning of the mash and have always been happy with the results. Never turns out too astringent/acrid. However, though my stouts are enjoyable, I want to do something different with the next one.

I know some people add their roasted grains at the end of the mash to avoid the acrid roasty-ness perceived by some palates. Supposedly, it gives the chocolate-y, coffee and slight roasty flavor/aroma that roasted malt is supposed to give w/out giving too much roasty-ness.

So my idea, though I'm sure it's been done before, is to add my normal amount of roasted malts at the beginning of my mash, and then w/ 15 mins left in the mash, add another ~1/2 lb or so to kick up the chocolate/coffee flavors a bit w/out adding much more roast. I know a lot of brewers don't recommend going over ~10% roasted malts in order to avoid that acrid/astringent roast. I'm thinking that maybe this is a way around that.

Anybody done this before? Did you find that it kicked your stouts/porters up a notch?

 

[kh54s10]

I would think that adding more roasted malts might kick the balance too far to the malty/roasty side. I would use the normal amount of roasted malts and split them between early and late additions. Unless, with your late additional amounts you are staying below 10% in total.

 

[snowveil]

I've turned to all late mash additions for my Stouts and Porters. I tend to get more of a smoothed out roast character since I started doing this.

Late dark malt additions is a method that's really trying to control mash pH more than anything. Dark malts tend to drive your mash pH down. If you're using soft water it's a concern. With harder water, it's not so much an issue.

I brew with RO water and generally use minimal salt additions (typically just enough Calcium Carbonate and/or Calcium Sulfate to get my Ca levels to 50-75ppm, or increased Calcium Sulfate for hoppy beers). I haven't experimented with slaked lime in dark beers just yet...but the next time I brew a Stout I plan to use it and move my dark malts back into the beginning of the mash.

Just like a lot in homebrewing...there doesn't seem to be much of a consensus about anything. Some folks swear by late dark malt additions, some say it doesn't make a difference.

Personally, I've had success with late dark malt additions. I took home a 1st place ribbon and 2nd BOS medal in a local competition of 168 beers with a mash-capped Oatmeal stout. Is that the reason why? Who knows.

 

[m00ps]

I add a portion of my debittered black malts for the mash and the rest just for mashout when I make a black IPA. Definitely works well for that style but I dunno if id do it in a stout or porter where that roast flavor is desirable. It definitely does smooth it out though

 

[IslandLizard]

I steep the darker roasted malts on the side @140-150°F and add the black potion after flameout at around 180°F. I really like the smoothness it gives, with no "boiled coffee" flavors.

 

[hanuswalrus]

I steep the darker roasted malts on the side @140-150°F and add the black potion after flameout at around 180°F. I really like the smoothness it gives, with no "boiled coffee" flavors.

That's another option I was thinking of trying. Tonsmeire's recent article got me thinking : http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2016/02/post-fermentation-malt-infused-porter.html

I think I'm going to go ahead and experiment with this idea. Mash my regular oatmeal stout recipe as usual, and then add .25 lb Carafa special and .25 lb Chocolate Rye w/ ~10 min left in the mash on top of the original recipe. I'm thinking/hoping it will just kick up the chocolate/coffee flavor from the malt w/out adding too much roast on top of the original recipe. Will probably end up close to 15% of the recipe being roasted malts.

 

[kev211]

One of the local breweries here did a small batch of their stout and instead of mashing the roasted grains they cold steeped them for 24 hours (I think, could have been more). The result was the most velvety, chocolatey stout that I've ever had with little to no roasty-ness that you speak of. They did a side by side comparison with mashed roasted grains and the cold steeped one and the difference was quite noticeable. I've been meaning to try it in my own choco stout because it was so delicious!

 

[dstockwell]

The Porter I have in FV, I cold steeped the Black Patent overnight then strained and added before boil.

 

[funnelweb]

There's heaps out there..

http://beersmith.com/blog/2011/11/17/brewing-beer-with-dark-grains-steeping-versus-mashing/

http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/how-to-brew/cold-steeping-getting-the-most-out-of-dark-grains/

http://www.brewersfriend.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1752

BR Folke

 

[didinho]

To avoid acrid/astringent in stout, I control mash PH (usually it acidify with no need to add lactic), then I correct sparge PH to 5-6 and the sparge water temperature is 70°C.
This way I eliminate ph and temperature factors that cause tannin extraction, and the beer is really smooth but I keep all the roasted aromas/flavors

 

[jwalk4]

Obligatory Brulosophy xBmt post: http://brulosophy.com/2015/11/30/ro...h-vs-capped-at-vorlauf-exbeeriment-results-2/

I love reading these things !

TLDR: late additions of dark/roasted grains did change the drinkers' perception of the beer but participants were unable to reliably explain how. However, the majority of the participants, as well as Mr Schott, preferred the full mash beer.