reds not there yet

[Stu9000]

Hi,
I've been brewing nearly two years. Beer and white wines are fine. Just can't get the reds right and that's what I really want.
I've tried beaverdale and a fair few other kits but it always falls short. Tastes acidic, too fruity, or slightly fizzy.

Id really appreciate any advice as I'd love to churn out some nice oaky peppery reds, the kind you would pay just over a fiver for in the supa.

Fiz taste is not fermentation. It could be co2 maybe. Should I work harder at degassing? Acid taste makes me wonder if I should use an acid adjuster kit but I didn't think that was needed with kits. Got a kenridge just raeady to bottle now and taste is hopeful but still seems to have that acidic Fiz!

I've just tasted a whole range of last years batches and they all taste like cheap crap.
Is a reasonable red unachievable?

Help!

 

[Atek]

I'm posting on this mostly to follow where it leads. How long are you bulk aging?

 

[Yooper]

What kinds of reds are you attempting? Grapes? Or kits?

If you want to make a good red, expect to pay $125-$175 for a kit.

 

[Stu9000]

They have been aged over a year now.

Yes, throw money at the problem! The kenridge kit comes out around that figure. I guess u get what u pay for. Although Ive had some success with elderlower, and am trying the apfelwein. My Country wines using hand picked blackberries are not great but more variables such as acid to consider and I'm pretty sure co2 is part of my problem.

Just to throw in another variable, I tried another batch of beaverdale, a 6 bottle merlot, aged 4 months, and its lovely. I used corks. Usually I use screw tops but I think I'm going to move away from that as perhaps the corks aid with aging.

Reading a few posts on here I'm going to get really strict about degassing. I was initially not v good, but have got steadily more careful. Not sure whether to buy a vac pump tho. This was ssupposed to be a hobby that kinda paid for itself with savings on not buying supermarket wine. I reckon I'm about two years away from breaking even !

Thanks all.

 

[Stu9000]

Just been considering yoopers reply. 125$ comes out at £75 over here. The most I've spent for a 30 bottle kit is £50.

Having a browse round, the Selection kits start at $125 .
The label descriptions are positively mouthwatering.
should I go even pricier, perhaps consider the grape skin packs?

Id be prepared to go to a cost of £3 a bottle but it had better deliver or the wife will rightly question my arguement that brewing is an investment as well as a hobby.

 

[Yooper]

With wine kits, you really do get what you pay for. I'm not sure what's available where you are, but the Cellar Craft kits with grape skins are good kits, and in the US cost about $150 or so. That's about $5 per finished bottle, and it makes a wine that I would consider like a $25 bottle.

There are many cheaper kits, with condensed grape juice. But they don't have great flavor or depth at all- they just taste like cheap wine.

I like to buy kits in a variety of prices- the cheap Vintner's Reserve kits for quick drinking. They are about $50 or so here, and are "ok" wines. Then they have some moderate ones, like the Selection International that are slightly better. The premium kits have less condensed juice, and more juice in total, along with grape skins, so that they simply are better quality. Those premium kits are best aged a year or more, and they are very nice wines.

 

[Stu9000]

Thanks yooper. Will investigate hi end kits.
But... Degassing. Had a bit of a breakthrough. I poured off a Dj of my kenridge £45 (30 bot kit.) It had that acid taste and was a bit foamy. Not great. So I've spent 3 days degassing it using every tool at my disposal from a brake bleed pump, the paddle and drill and good ol fashioned shaking. Making sure it was 24 degrees c was important. Masses of co2 removed, not all in one go, but steadily over 3 days. Taste is transformed from cheap thin plonc to classy red.

It has massively improved the red wine. Huge difference. Why isn't degassing up in lights as an important job?
Seems crazy to me that some people don't seem to think it is that critical.

I played around degassing several other wines and there was a lot of variation . Fermenting under the recommended temp apparently adds more co2. Racking knocks out a fair bit. It must be up to 24 dc or the gas won't knock out easily. leaving to mature under airlock allows the wine to slowly degas, v slowly.
I've been increasingly obsessed with degassing as u can probably tell. A busy job and a family don't allow me to potter endlessly in the shed. So, ideally, I need a fast and effective method for removing co2.
I looked at food saver vacuum pumps but too pricey. My paddle attached to a drill works well. Finishing off with the brake bleed hand pump coupled with gentle shaking has I hope got out most of it.

The brake pump pulls at about -20hg I think. You can buy electric vac pumps but for a decent pressure I'd like a little higher that -20hg and that gets pricey again.

I saw a post showing a way to take a bike foot pump and make it suck not blow. Seems the cheapest way to generate a strong vacuum so I've ordered some braided 10mm hose and a check valve.

Maybe the lesson learned is to just do it!

 

[Atek]

Stu,
Could you share that link? I just found my 8month old Welch's wine is also "fizzy". It's done dropping sediment and I really don't want to rack it again and risk oxidizing it. Thanks!

 

[Stu9000]

Hi Atek.
Not sure which link you mean but Ive had a bit of a breakthrough using an electric vacuum pump.
The reversed foot pump didnt work at all (possibly due to the cheapness of the pump).
Ive been obsessed with degassing as I think that fiz has ruined a lot of my reds. Ive been too busy/lazy to pop into the shed to give the dj a shake or whisk with the drill twice a day for several days.

My solution was to buy a 3 stage electric vacuum pump off Ebay for £80. Yes, it was a bit steeper than Id hoped but it has come up with the goods. Also bought a few jubilee clips, a cheap guage and some braided hose.

Below you can see my pump in action on a DJ of blackberry wine that Id already degassed using a whisk a couple of times. Temp was 22 degrees c. Vacuum was -25"HG. I ran the pump for half an hour with bubbles slowly decreasing over the last 10 mins.

http://youtu.be/FgB-H7bRGl0
Whether you go with a gadget, a whisk and drill or just shake the hell out of it regularly I thoroughly recommend degassing your wine to get rid of the cheap red fiz taste.