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Cjtabares

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4 gal apple juice
1 gal honey
Vanilla beans
Cinnamon
Dark brown sugar
Yeast
Yeast nutrients

I was going to ferment the honey and apple juice dry. When fermentation is complete I was going to backsweeten with brown sugar to taste. I then plan on letting it sit on vanilla beans in a carboy to taste. After that I would remove the vanilla and add cinnamon sticks, again I would leave it until I have the cinnamon taste I want.


Would this work? Do you think it would be good? Would you make any changes? Also what yeast would you use.
 
from those quantities I'll guess you are working on a 5 gallon batch, it sounds like a decent apple cinnamon cyser recipe.

You could put both the vanilla and cinnamon in the secondary with the brown sugar if you wanted to, but it sounds like you want to be real specific with the amount of flavor of each.

For yeast 2-3 packs of Lalvin KIV-1116 would probably work well with your ingredients and take this recipe dry (yup they say 1 packet can handle up to 5 gallons, but 2, even 3 will ensure youre not underpitching with the amount of fermentables you are going to have)

I think it'll definitely work, especially with good yeast managment like step feeding, aerating/degassing and temperature control and being a big apple cinnamon fan in general it sounds like it could be delicious.

I might even age something like this on lightly toasted oak for a bit, not only would it mellow the hot alcohol taste youre likely to have initially a little faster, but it could give you some nice vanilla and even toffee undertones that will compliment it well and some tannins that will make the flavors pop giving a crisper taste and more depth overall.
 
Yes 5 gallon batch

Thanks for the tips, these would really be the first time I have made somethng not based on an already tested recipe.

I have 4 oz of freanch oak chips that I never got around to using. They are 2 years or so old. Would age do anything to these?
 
If they were in a sealed dry package they should be fine, some recommend boiling them for a few minutes then draining and putting them in the fermenter. You could do that to be on the safe side and get them presoaked I honestly forget the other reason they said it was good to use that method but I remember it making sense when I read it. 4oz. of chips are probably more than you need, due to the increased surface space of the chips usually you don't need more than about an oz. of them for 5 gallons.
 
For a cyser you can go with a clover or wildflower honey, orange blossom is real good too but more expensive. If you're making a traditional or show mead where the honey is the star of the show then it's nice to find a decent single source varietal with subtle characteristics that you want to highlight, but when you make a cyser or melomel then the blends like clover or wildflower work just fine. it you ever decide to make a bochet then you can go even less expensive since you are boiling and caramelizing the honey to produce a specific flavor/aroma profile so the underlying flavor is less important.
 
So if I did my research right apple juice would have a sg of ~ 1.049

480 g/gal = 1.058 lb/galSG = (1.058 / (8.338 * 2.59)) + 1 = 1.049

So using gotmeads calculator that would mean around 9% sugar. I set the calculator so apple juice would give me the 1.049 sg then added the 1 gallon of honey. I stuck with their numbers for that.

If I use the 4 gal of juice and 1 gallon of honey I would have an og of 1.125. If I ferment to a sg of 1 i would have a abv. of 16.11%. Am I right with these figures? What is a likely fg? I was looking for an abv of around 15.5%. I will substitute some of the apple juice to water to get my desired og? I just need to know if a fg of 1.00-0.998 is realistic?

Sorry I have only made one batch of mead before.
 
Without going to gotmead and running the numbers yours sound pretty good.
personally I like a sweeter mead. If you maintain you recipe as planned, look for a yeast with a tolerance in the 14-15% range. With proper nutrition and aeration you can normally exceed the rated tolerance slightly.

If it finishes at 15-15.5% you will have a FG in the 1.005-1.010 range. Perfect in my opinion. I am currently making a mead with similiar #'s, I chose D 47 yeast.

The advantage is that you get some residual sweetness, no backsweetening, and the yeast are maxed out so no bottle bombs. Just make absolutely sure that fermentation is 100% finished before bottling.
 
Toss your hydrometer in the apple juice. All juice isn't created equally :)

My own two cents I would leave the oak out. You have a LOT of flavors going on already in this recipe: honey, molasses, cinnamon, vanilla...

Make it too complex and nothing will shine through...it'll just taste muddled...the palate will be confused.
 
roadymi said:
Without going to gotmead and running the numbers yours sound pretty good.
personally I like a sweeter mead. If you maintain you recipe as planned, look for a yeast with a tolerance in the 14-15% range. With proper nutrition and aeration you can normally exceed the rated tolerance slightly.

If it finishes at 15-15.5% you will have a FG in the 1.005-1.010 range. Perfect in my opinion. I am currently making a mead with similiar #'s, I chose D 47 yeast.

The advantage is that you get some residual sweetness, no backsweetening, and the yeast are maxed out so no bottle bombs. Just make absolutely sure that fermentation is 100% finished before bottling.
Click to expand...

I want to backsweeten to my taste and also want to get some of the molasses taste from the brown sugar.
malkore said:
Toss your hydrometer in the apple juice. All juice isn't created equally :)

My own two cents I would leave the oak out. You have a LOT of flavors going on already in this recipe: honey, molasses, cinnamon, vanilla...

Make it too complex and nothing will shine through...it'll just taste muddled...the palate will be confused.
Click to expand...

I will when I have the apple juice, I just made a alfelwein and will be using the same juice. The label says 30 grams per 8oz. Do you think there are to many flavors in the recipe as is? The vanilla was an after thought that I thought would be good. I would be fine removing it if it will be to much.
 
Would this benefit from batch aging? I am thinking of bottling after a year then bottle aging for a while as well. Would this help the flavors? Should I go longer?
 
Cjtabares said:
Would this benefit from batch aging? I am thinking of bottling after a year then bottle aging for a while as well. Would this help the flavors? Should I go longer?
Click to expand...
There's much discussion about bulk Vs bottle ageing so...........

Commercial vineyards/wineries invariably age in bottles, but that's because with temperature and humidity controlled storage, they can mimmick a "proper" wine cellar/cave. Which helps with consistency. Whereas, we home brewers usually don't have access to that kind of storage, so it's been found that ageing in bulk in a glass fermenter - carboy or demi-john type - it helps to maintain some consistency of the batch, so that when it's bottled it's all the same and there's no variation in taste etc.

There's little point in deciding in advance that you'll age it for X amount of time, as you can easily find yourself being disappointed when that time is up and the batch isn't ready.

A year is a good point to start, in fact, you may find it just as helpful to take a little taste every month or so, then you can judge better how it's progressing and when bottling time is - which gives you more time too sort yourself out with kit, bottles, etc etc
 
So I put this together last night.

I used 14 lbs of a local wildflower honey and 4 gallons of apple juice.
O.g. is 1.13. I used 3 packages of 1116. I had fermax it said 1/2 tsp per gallon i used 1/2 of that and will add the other 1/2 over the next few days. Anything else I can do to insure this ferment dry?

If I need to top this off when I move it to a secondary would using apple juice be ok? I know I will cut the alcohol a little but would it add some apple flavor and sweetness. Then if I still want to back sweeten with the brown sugar.
 
Sp is at 1.11. We are moving in the right direction. So I plan on adding the last of the yeast nutrient tomorrow and give it another good stir. Should I keep stirring until the 1/3 break then stop? Do i understand this right? The 1/3 break is at 1.087?
 
Yea after the 1/3 sugar break go ahead and stop airating the must. I like to give the carboy a gentle swirl through primary though to help release the co2 and keep those levels down.
 
Last night I added the last of the yeast nutriant. The sg is at 1.09, is this a where I should be after 3 days? Should I wait until gravity does not change for the first rack?
 
sounds like it is going fine, giving it a good shake or stir before and after the nutrients?

yeah wait until it is done or appears close to it, you should be able to get to a 1.01 or 1.02 with it if not even lower, then consider racking into secondary and making additions.
 
Ok thanks. I have it in a 7 1/2 gallon fermentation bucket. I take the lid off give it a good stir it foams up to fill the bucket usually, I then add the nutrients and stir it again.
 
I usually go 2-3 per gallon, I like the amount of vanilla that gives, I just split them in half and toss in, some like to split and scrape and add everything but I find that within a day if I give a gentle swirl there are flecks of the vanilla all over the place on their own without scraping them out and adding them.

I usually get madagascar beans, the tonga will work just as well. Search amazon or even just google though you could find them cheaper than $3-$4 per bean.
 
TheBrewingMedic said:
I usually go 2-3 per gallon, I like the amount of vanilla that gives, I just split them in half and toss in, some like to split and scrape and add everything but I find that within a day if I give a gentle swirl there are flecks of the vanilla all over the place on their own without scraping them out and adding them.

I usually get madagascar beans, the tonga will work just as well. Search amazon or even just google though you could find them cheaper than $3-$4 per bean.
Click to expand...

If I get 10 it would be $20. Maybe I will go with madagascar since most people seem to use that. I might also order their sample kit and taste all the beans they have for sale.
 
Ok so I ordered 10 Madagascar and 3 Tahitian vanilla beans and they came in today. I tested The sg and its at 1.02 and still fermenting when fermentation has stopped I will stabilize then back sweeten to taste, I am thinking 1.01-1.015. Then I will add real cinnamon. When I get the flavor I want from the cinnamon I will split it into a 1 gal batch with the Tahition vanilla and a 4 gal batch with the 10 Madagascar vanilla. Then I will let it clear, age, bottle, maybe a little more age, and finally enjoy. I hope this comes out as good as I am imagining it.

How well does the apple flavor come through on a cyser, would it help to add some frozen then thawed apples when I backsweeten? How well does vanilla flavor age? I have read it becomes almost unditactiable if aged to long.
 
I am thinking of ageing this on some French and Hungarian oak cubes. How long can I expect to keep it on the oak to get a benefit from them and what would be the max I would want to leave it on them? I understand this can vary from batch to batch and person to person just looking for an idea.

I read that the French needs less contact time to give flavor. Should I oak in two steps? I also read a light toast can give a sweet flavor that does not go great with a sweeter mead. Is this true? Should I use med or heavy toast?
 
Oak at a light toast level will lend a fresh wood and coconut character to your mead, but as toast levels increase to medium/medium-plus levels, these flavors are decreased and more vanilla and caramel notes are brought forward. Medium-plus is typically the best of all worlds in dealing with toast levels, as it brings out the qualities you would normally find in a heavier toast, without diminishing the vanilla and other qualities found in a lighter toast

As far as time, your best bet will be to taste it along the way start with a week or two on the cubes, give a swirl and taste and build from there. I've heard of them going for a month or two and in some beers they could easily be left on the cubes for a year. I suppose a heavy or heavily spiced mead could handle that as well. I've read about doing it in two stages where you start with chips in the fermenter and cubes in the keg or aging carboy.
 
Figured I would post the progress

5/18
sg: 1.04

5/22
sg: 1.02

5/28
S.g. 1.01

6/2: Sg still at 1.01
Racked and stabilized

6/3
Added 2 Ceylon cinnamon sticks

6/5: added 2 more cinnamon sticks.

6/6: back sweetened to 1.018 with honey

Used 1/8 gallon apple juice to dissolve honey. This was added to 4 3/4 gallons. Estimated abv% is a little over 15%

6/13:
Racked off cinnamon

6/14:
Added 3/4oz Saigon cassia

6/21
Racked off of the 2nd cinnamon and onto 1oz med+ French and 1oz med+ Hungarian oak.
Will taste in a week or so.

Tasted a little while racking. The strong alcohol taste is mellowing out, I can taste the apple and both cinnamon. One is a sweet cinnamon taste and one is a spicy cinnamon taste. The cinnamon is not very strong. I might like it a little stronger but did not want to over do it, I can always add more later. After oaking I will split this onto the 2 different vanilla beans.
 

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