Recipe Help for a Beer/Wine Hybrid

[Tsarface]

Hey everyone, I'd appreciate some input on this recipe I've been developing.
Since having a few Dogfish Head brews, (Midas Touch and Sixty-One in particular), I've been inspired to create my own hybrid. In this case, I wanted to base the style off of a dark Belgian ale, like a dubble or quad using D-180 in particular. My main problem here is that I am wine-illiterate for the most part and am not sure how these flavors would blend with yeast and malt character.

Furthermore, I wanted to be minimal on the hops, and was playing around with the idea of using heather as a bittering agent, in both the mash and boil. I've never actually tasted heather though so I'd certainly appreciate input on this as well.

My rough-draft recipe is as follows:

8lbs Maris Otter (I'm flexible on base malt but I like Maris Otter as my default)
3lbs Amber/Biscuit Malt- for some extra complexity
1 lb of D-180 Candi Syrup
4 lbs of some form of Alexander's Grape Concentrate (I'm unable to acquire the real thing at a realistic price) -This would be added in the secondary along with Brett B.

Hops/Herbs:
1oz Heather in the Mash @ 60 min
1oz Heather in boil @ 5 min

.5oz Citra @ 60 min IBUs: 14.2
.5oz Citra @ 60 min IBUs: 5.1

Pitch Wyeast 3787 High Gravity Trappist Yeast starter after cooling to 68 (I'll take alternate suggestions on primary yeast)
Pitch Brett. B in secondary

Starting Gravity is an estimated 1.075 in Beersmith, estimated FG at 1.014 at 8.1%ABV, though I suspect the Brett may bring the FG down a bit more than that over time. The concentrate I've calculated at 1.032 yield per lb for recipe calculation.

I was considering dialing back on the grape concentrate in favor of more d-180, but I've never used either before. I'm aiming for a dark, complex beer that has the d-180 character as well as some tartness and floral notes while not being too muddled. I'd very much appreciate anyone's suggestions and/or critiques.

 

[Yooper]

I reallly have no idea, as I make beer and wine both but never have tried anything like you describe, I'm afraid.

hopefully someone else has some experience with this, and can help out!

 

[NibblesMN]

Making wine and beer seperately and blending might provide the best results. I was reading this one just a few days ago and it might give you some ideas.

http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2015/04/alsatian-saison-recipe.html

 

[madscientist451]

I try to keep an open mind about new ideas, but my skeptical side took over after reading the details of your project. Your basic plan is to brew a Belgian beer with Trappist yeast, then when its done add it to undiluted grape concentrate and pitch Brett B.
Its hard to tell what the result will be from the trappist yeast/grape concentrate fermentation then with the Brett B, that's another layer of questions.
I would think a good approach is to try one thing at a time. Make your Belgian beer or use a commercial example and get some commercial red wine you like and do some blending trials. See if you can come close to the flavor profile you are looking for.
Then get the wine grapes or concentrate of the variety you like. But I'd dilute the
concentrate to regular grape juice strength before fermenting. One of the biggest challenges will be finding the right yeast to give the taste you want. Good Luck!
Here's a link where beer was added to finished wine:
http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2012/03/hybrid-wine-beer-sour-tasting.html

Here's a great article about beer/wine hybrids:

http://imbibemagazine.com/beer-wine-hybrids/

 

[Tsarface]

Wow, thanks for the input everyone, much appreciated. Madscientist in particular. After some consideration I've decided to dial back the wine addition to probably 2 lbs instead of four and I think I will probably ferment with a neutral american yeast to let other the ingredient flavor profiles come through. I plan to poach a couple nicer wine bottles during my family Christmas get-together tomorrow and do some tasting/blending with a munich porter I brewed a while back.

Odds are I will brew a more refined version of this recipe within the next week so I'll be back here to report on the initial results by that time.

Ps: NibblesMN, I also live in the great state of Minnesota, just outside St. Paul. Good to see other MN natives active on this site.

 

[NibblesMN]

Ps: NibblesMN, I also live in the great state of Minnesota, just outside St. Paul. Good to see other MN natives active on this site.

Hooray for the great state of Minnesota! and all our beer