Recipe Etiquette

[Pilgarlic]

I got a question I think is related to recipe etiquette.

Recently, I was pm'ed for my only 1st place recipe. My girlfriend picked out all the ingredients while I just figured out our process. I asked her if she minded giving out the recipe and, to my surprise, she was adamantly opposed to it. I told her he was an HBTer. No. I said we've brewed HBT recipes. She said they chose to post those. I said he's from Memphis, and not part of our local homebrew competition in Mass. No!

I truly believe everyone in this community stands on the shoulders of giants. Sharing of knowledge and ideas is a huge part of homebrewing and makes us all better brewers. She wants her secret recipe.

I've been ignoring the guy. I'm obviously not going to lie to my gf and give him the recipe but maybe there's a compromise. What should I do? How do you guys feel about posting recipes for the world to see?

It's entirely your choice. My only observation would be that with few exceptions the best commercial and homebrewers I know share freely, and it's one of the things I love about our culture.

 

[bobbrewedit]

While I agree that sharing is important...its not worth pissing off your other half. Keeping her interested in recipes and brewing would be more of a priority to me than sharing a recipe with others. There are a million recipes out there and as Rev mentioned several times, creating them is half the experience.

As for the guy whose PM'ing you, just tell him the recipe is not yours to give...and momma said NO!

 

[Homercidal]

As long as it's not one of mine, I say go for it.

 

[stratslinger]

Agreed with bob - let the guy know the situtation, I'm sure he'll understand. Most of us are more than willing to share recipes, many of us have done so, but we also understand that some folks are less willing to do so and we aren't about to get bent out of shape if we run across one of those. We may, however, get a little bent out of shape over being ignored.

 

[m_stodd]

Well, the recipe isn't hers, all she did was pick out the list of ingredients. Tell your gf that since you figured out the process, you're going to respond and give him the process.

A list of ingredients is honestly next to meaningless, it's like listing all the NFL teams on Sunday night but not giving any scores.
====================
Back to the original subject. I would enter someone else's recipe into a competition before I entered my own, I actually have a beer going right now that I'm planning on doing it with. As a brewing noob, it's hard for me to imagine that I'll make a recipe better than some of the seasoned veterans on this site, so I'm not going to try to yet. Plus, if I win, I can say "Hey BrewerXXX, you're recipe got me 1st place, you're super awesome" at which time we exchange internet high-fives.

If I were to post a recipe on this forum, it would be because I'm proud of it, think it's awesome, and want others to try is and tell me how awesome it is.

To the subject of a pro using my recipe for profit, that would be flipping awesome. Imitation truly is the most sincere form of flattery.

And to the point of pro breweries 'ripping off' other pro breweries. Who cares? If breweries work together so that they both have awesome recipes, then everyone wins. If a brewery is secretive and others try to rip them off, you've got the three 'i's: The innovators, the imitators, and the idiots. If the innovator is worth anything, they'll innovate again if the imitators take any of their market share.

 

[Rev2010]

A list of ingredients is honestly next to meaningless

I still cannot understand this dismissive mentality. How on Earth can you say the list of ingredients is meaningless!? That is the equivalent of saying the ingredients themselves are meaningless. I mean, it's 2-row malt right? Who cares what brand it is. It's crystal malt right, so who cares what company it's from?

If a recipe has the exact same grain bill but exchanges Weyermann Pilsner for Belgian Pilsner there will be a flavor difference and different end result. If the ingredient list of a Pumpkin Ale calls for 1/2 tsp of Pumpkin Pie spice and another calls for 2 tbsp's there will be a huge difference.

If a recipe says to use 8lbs of Rahr 2-row, 1lb of Caramel 60, mash at 149, and to use Wyeast 1056 and ferment at 66 degrees it will be wildly different from a beer who's recipe says to use 7lbs of Briess 2-row, .75lb of Caramel 40, and .25lb of Special B, mash at 154, and to use Wyeast 1968 and to ferment at 62 degrees.

Now before anyone says most recipes don't indicate which brand of malt to use fair enough, but the balance of those ingredients, the mash temp, and fermentation temp, still makes a big difference. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills (off handed Zoolander reference ).


Rev.

 

[malweth]

Another point:
Every recipe needs to be tweaked at least a little. I've never bought hops that had the AA% given in the recipe. At what point is it enough of a change? I adjust for bitterness. I substitute ingredients (especially at the LHBS where some things are impossible to get).

At what point is it mine?

I personally don't consider a recipe to be mine unless I entered everything (from scratch) in BeerSmith. (The beer itself is always mine).

 

[m_stodd]

I still cannot understand this dismissive mentality. How on Earth can you say the list of ingredients is meaningless!? That is the equivalent of saying the ingredients themselves are meaningless. I mean, it's 2-row malt right? Who cares what brand it is. It's crystal malt right, so who cares what company it's from?

If a recipe has the exact same grain bill but exchanges Weyermann Pilsner for Belgian Pilsner there will be a flavor difference and different end result. If the ingredient list of a Pumpkin Ale calls for 1/2 tsp of Pumpkin Pie spice and another calls for 2 tbsp's there will be a huge difference.

If a recipe says to use 8lbs of Rahr 2-row, 1lb of Caramel 60, mash at 149, and to use Wyeast 1056 and ferment at 66 degrees it will be wildly different from a beer who's recipe says to use 7lbs of Briess 2-row, .75lb of Caramel 40, and .25lb of Special B, mash at 154, and to use Wyeast 1968 and to ferment at 62 degrees.

Now before anyone says most recipes don't indicate which brand of malt to use fair enough, but the balance of those ingredients, the mash temp, and fermentation temp, still makes a big difference. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills (off handed Zoolander reference ).


Rev.

I don't think I was clear. The girlfriend picked out a bunch of ingredients, then the boyfriend figure out how to make an award winning beer from them, perhaps even not using all of some ingredients. The boyfriend calculated temperatures and volumes, when to add certain amounts of hops, chilling, fermentation temperature, clarification, packaging... In the context of someone wanting the recipe, the girlfriend shouldn't have even half of the say IMO, the boyfriend did all the hard work.

It's next to meaningless in that even if he was given a different bunch of ingredients, I bet he could still make an award winning beer.

 

[Yooper]

How do you guys feel about posting recipes for the world to see?

I have no problem sharing any and all of my recipes, whether posted or not in the recipe database. I don't understand why anybody would want it "secret", but if she does that's her choice.

The funny thing? I can drink a beer and pick out the ingredients. So, all I'd have to do to get your recipe is take a sip.

I was at a Homebrew club meeting on Saturday, and I never go to club meetings because they are over an hour drive away. But this was at a friend's brewery, and he's the only Nanobrewery in Wisconsin so I thought it would be fun. It was!

He brought out a beer and said, "What are my unique ingredients in this beer" I took a sip, and said, "Special B, and German Munich malt". His mouth fell open and he said "ding, ding, ding!"

Not everybody can do that, but sometimes just brewing for years and years (and drinking plenty of good beers for years and years) really helps with recipe formulation.

You can go to many commercial beer websites and they list their ingredients. Maybe not the actual recipe, but it'll say, "Klages two-row, Munich malt, crystal 40L along with 50 IBUs. Hops are citra, horizon, and centennial". If they have no fear about sharing their ingredients, why should you?!?

Beer has four ingredients- malt, yeast, hops, water. Nothing really too unique about that.

Here's something to think about. I can give you a recipe, and even tell you how to do it. But I can guarantee that your beer will NOT taste like mine. It might not even be all that similar, depending on the techniques. That's why some "clone recipes" don't even look like the original beer, but I'll be darned if they don't taste an awful lot like the original. And vice versa! I've had some spot on clone recipes made by other people and their beer isn't even close.

It's really implementation that makes a beer. I've had enough bad beers submitted to me in competitions to realize that. Great recipe + mediocre brewer= bad beer. Everytime.

 

[dogbar]

I got a question I think is related to recipe etiquette.

Recently, I was pm'ed for my only 1st place recipe. My girlfriend picked out all the ingredients while I just figured out our process. I asked her if she minded giving out the recipe and, to my surprise, she was adamantly opposed to it. I told her he was an HBTer. No. I said we've brewed HBT recipes. She said they chose to post those. I said he's from Memphis, and not part of our local homebrew competition in Mass. No!

I truly believe everyone in this community stands on the shoulders of giants. Sharing of knowledge and ideas is a huge part of homebrewing and makes us all better brewers. She wants her secret recipe.

I've been ignoring the guy. I'm obviously not going to lie to my gf and give him the recipe but maybe there's a compromise. What should I do? How do you guys feel about posting recipes for the world to see?

Half pound wheat malt, half pound C-40, half pound munich, half pound Victory, three pounds MO, three pounds 2-row, mash at 152, top up to gravity with 2# DME. Use 0.5oz each of Citra and Amarillo in four additions at FWH, 20, 10 and flame out. Ferment with Nottingham.

How close did I get?

 

[Krovitz]

Half pound wheat malt, half pound C-40, half pound munich, half pound Victory, three pounds MO, three pounds 2-row, mash at 152, top up to gravity with 2# DME. Use 0.5oz each of Citra and Amarillo in four additions at FWH, 20, 10 and flame out. Ferment with Nottingham.

How close did I get?

Ha. You've crossed two different recipes of mine. Hops are spot on though. Grain bill is much simpler.

BTW, that red ale came out pretty darn good too. I changed it a little, no wheat, C-60 and added a little caraaroma.

 

[dogbar]

Yoop has her palate, I only have the search function

Edit: So if I'd guessed .5# wheat, .5# c-40 and the rest two row and DME I'd have gotten there? Your red did throw me.

It's not lying to your girlfriend if you just blink once for yes, twice for no.

 

[zeg]

I still cannot understand this dismissive mentality. How on Earth can you say the list of ingredients is meaningless!? That is the equivalent of saying the ingredients themselves are meaningless. I mean, it's 2-row malt right? Who cares what brand it is. It's crystal malt right, so who cares what company it's from?

I would agree that "meaningless" is going too far. While just using the same recipe won't give you the same beer, using different ingredients certainly won't either.

However, when it comes to producing a good to great beer, I would put the recipe pretty far down on the list of things you have to nail. In the hands of a great brewer, almost any combination of malts and hops that meets a handful of constraints is likely to be a good beer, and probably will find some big fans.

If you are trying to produce a specific beer, then yes, the exact recipe is pretty important (though certainly not unique---there are plenty of small variations that I'm sure even Yooper couldn't distinguish!). If you are trying to fit it within a style, or to push the envelope ("just how much black malt can I put in before it's foul"), then it's fairly important. But if you are just trying to produce a good beer, it's not like you're going to get something foul because you had an extra pound of base malt, you used Crystal 60 instead of 20, or you were out of roast barley so you threw in some chocolate malt.

At the end of the day, if I try your beer and think it's phenomenal, my first reaction is going to be that you are a great brewer, not that you found a great recipe. That's what I'm trying to get at.

 

[Krovitz]

I'm not saying anything.

A lot of good points were made. In the end, she is my co-brewer. 50/50 split. Her recipes come out much better than mine, so I have to assume ingredients are just as important as process.

Back to OP, if someone chose to post their own recipes, they know that everyone can do whatever they want with it. So enter away. You might even make it better.

We just went full circle there.

 

[iambeer]

I'm not sure I understand. I usually pick a recipe that has 5 stars, change a couple of things so that it's totally new and unique. Then I give it to my head brewer and say "make this taste great".... "no matter what" ....or "else".

Sticks are better than carrots. Most of the time it comes out well but sometimes it doesn't, which forces me to look for a new brew master on Craig's List.

As you can see from the above, the recipe that I make is everything and the process is expandable. That is why I am the boss #1. Trust me there are plenty of talented young brew masters that would pay me to work for me as long as I let them go to trade shows and drink legal malt beverage during business hours.

 

[lou2row]

A quick tangent:
You buy a book of recipes. You make one of the brews and it comes out outstanding. Do you enter it?

 

[dogbar]

I'm not saying anything.

Ha, that means I got it

 

[Krovitz]

Ha, that means I got it

Closer but still off.