Really sweet ipa

[hayden5757]

After reading this your first thought will be "duh you didn't check the gravity!" Or "you know what your problem was" but I am really stumped or I wouldn't be here. I am about 12 batches in a still learning with every batch.

So I tried to start brewing single hopped ipas based on this recipe:

http://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/5920/zombie-dust-clone-extract

My first attempt was an all Azacca. I plugged the base recipe to beer smith and adjusted the hops accordingly. I basically made them hit dead center on the bar. However the chart showed a sg of 1.047. So I added 2 more pounds of dme and again adjusted the hops to reflect I think about 55ish ibus.

The yeast I used was a packet of dipa yeast from omega labs, practically Conan yeast. I didn't make a starter with this one. Just brought it to about room temperature and pitched. It fermented perfectly fine.

I racked it to a keg after 32 days. Force carved it at about 20psi and 38 degrees. For a week. Then it had a nice smooth head and good bubbles to it. But one thing stood out immediately. It was very sweet. But it had a very hoppy finish after you swallow. It was drinkable but just not what I was used to.

Before ask, no unfortunately I didn't take a gravity reading. At any point. So yes that makes this hard, but I will be doing them in all future batches. But I am hoping you guys can tell me what I'm missing here.

Hopping: I did my hopping slightly off from the clone. Instead of dry hop I added those same hops to the first wort hops and the whirlpool addition.

The beer smells wonderful though. I want to figure this out soon because I just got in 4 little 1 gallon growlers with airlocks to serve as a small version of this recipe with different hops try more beers without the risk of wasting big batches. I am going to scale the recipe down based on 6 lbs dme rather than 8. And the hops as well. But I'm still seeing a sg of 1.047. This just seems way too low for an ipa. My only thought is that maybe his clone is based off of some super hopped pale ale. In which case my charts will be all over the place.

Taste is subjective and maybe I am just used to less sweet ipas. And every Brewer has the freedom to call what the industry considers a pale ale, an ipa. They don't always have to fall in cookie cutter guidelines.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Hayden

 

[JLeuck64]

Yes, I would agree with you taste buds... it finished with higher gravity ( ; Use the hydrometer laddie! LOL

 

[Buc_Nasty]

I would take a gravity reading to see what the final gravity is. Just take a sample and degas it and take a gravity reading with the hydrometer.

 

[m00ps]

its sweet because that is a poorly designed IPA recipe. 18% specialty malts is way to high for an IPA. Add to that the fact you are using extract, which is notorious for not reaching a target FG and youve got a sticky sweet mess on your hands. Next time, omit all crystal malts and add some cane sugar to help dry it out

 

[JLeuck64]

I just took a look at my own house IPA recipe and it's:
88% - 2 row
5% - C40
5% - C10
2% - Carapils/Dextrine

You could try scaling your recipe to match these for a baseline and go from there. I am assuming that German-Carafoam is used for head retention just like Carapils/Dextrine?

Next we need to get you building those starters! It really didn't ferment fine because we really don't know where it finished. So let's think about building starters or sumthin'... perhaps over pitching with twice the yeast vials/packets?

Beyond that you owe it to yourself to really start thinking about temp control during fermentation ( ; it will really help those beers finish!

 

[Yooper]

its sweet because that is a poorly designed IPA recipe. 18% specialty malts is way to high for an IPA. Add to that the fact you are using extract, which is notorious for not reaching a target FG and youve got a sticky sweet mess on your hands. Next time, omit all crystal malts and add some cane sugar to help dry it out

It's not a bad recipe. It's got nearly 6% crystal malt, plus some carafoam in the same amount so that's a bit high, but certainly nothing terrible in there. The Munich malt is certainly fine, and melanoidin malt is ok too for a stronger malt backbone.

I think the main issue is if it was a partial boil. The reason is this. If you are doing a full boil, you'd start with about 6+ gallons of water. And then add the hops. Because there is a maximum amount of hops oils that can isomerize, the maximum you can get in a wort is about 90 IBUs or so, sometimes less.

That's not a huge deal if you're doing a full boil. But say you're boiling half the wort, and topping up with water. In a beer like this, that's a huge deal.

Here's why- say you do the boil and end up with 2.5 gallons of wort. Even if you have 90 IBUs in there (unlikely, but theoretically possible, plus it makes my math easier), then you top up with 2.5 gallons of water. You've just halved the IBUs to 45 IBUs- not nearly enough IBUs for an IPA wort of 1.066.

I'm not sure of your actual OG, or the IBUs (you mentioned 55, but I don't know how that was calculated) but this is the most likely cause of a too-sweet IPA. It could be a high FG also, since you didn't do a starter, so it could be a combination of all of the above.

 

[hayden5757]

Thanks for all the feedback guys. Today I am making this recipe without the caramel for my little 1 gallon batches. I'm taking my 5 gallon kettle and steeping my grains in all 5 gallons. Then transferring 1.25 gal to a separate pot to boil each hop for 4 different ipas. I did take that same yeast an made a starter. I've made starters for awhile but that last batch my homebrew supply guy said just pitch from the packet so I did.

I now have a beer thief and graduated cylinder to measure my gravity. I also sat a beer my old ipa out to take a fg reading as soon as it goes flat.

As far as temp control goes I guess I don't really know how to go about that. I have a keezer with adjustable temp. But beyond that my basement floor is usually 65 even in the winter. I've had pretty good luck there. Out of the light and always where I want my ales to ferment. I fermented on the second floor once (78) obviously house mistake. Tasted like gasoline.

The ibus just come from beer smith charts. The top off its most likely the culprit I guess. I have a 5 gallon kettle, so I usually start the boil with about 4 gallons. But today I am starting those boils with 1.25 for a 1 gallon batch.

I did start a beer journal to keep track of what I've done and can look back at what could have been done differently.

If anyone is curious the single hop 1 gal today will be: Azacca, citra, Belma, and Kohatu. Can't wait to taste all of them.

Recipe is:

1 lb Munich 10
8oz carafoam
8oz Melanoiden

1.4 lb extra light dme per 1.25 gal. (7 lb reduced from 8 lb)

Hop schedule is based on hops used:

FWH: ~.4oz
15: ~.2oz
10: ~.2oz
5: ~.2oz
1: ~.2oz
Whirl: ~.4oz
Dry: ~.6oz

Cheers

 

[dstockwell]

45 IBUs- not nearly enough IBUs for an IPA wort of 1.066.

So I am curious... If you are brewing to style, say Brown IPA OG:1.056 – 1.070, 40 - 70 IBU's, and I have OG: 1.062 with 42 IBU's is this wrong. I have tried a few commercial IPA's 70 and up IBU's and just consider it to bitter, and don't much care for it.

 

[hayden5757]

I wouldn't consider myself a hophead but I've tried many ipas. The ones I've liked the most have been well below 70. Not to contradict my post, but I tend to side with the doubles and imperials for the added sweet, sticky mouthfeel. And the sneak attack buzz but I agree with you there, I think there are plenty, if not most, IPAs that can be way too bitter with little to no aroma or distinguishable flavor. Stone's delicious ipa is...well delicious.

 

[Yooper]

So I am curious... If you are brewing to style, say Brown IPA OG:1.056 – 1.070, 40 - 70 IBU's, and I have OG: 1.062 with 42 IBU's is this wrong. I have tried a few commercial IPA's 70 and up IBU's and just consider it to bitter, and don't much care for it.

No of course it's not "wrong". But I would find it on the edge of too sweet, depending on the other ingredients and mash temp.

I would find an IPA of 45 IBUs and an OG of 1.066 and crystal malt in the amount of 12% in a recipe (like this one) too sweet.

Beer is all about balance. A brown with an OG of 1.070 and 42 IBUs will taste very different than a brown with the same IBUs but with an OG of 1.056. What is important is the IBU/SG ratio. In this case, the first beer with an OG of 1.070 gives us an IBU/SG ratio of .600 or so. The second has a has an IBU/SG ratio of .871- that's more like an IPA bitterness level! So you can see that a "range" of IBUs and SGs makes a huge difference in the balance of the beer.

For an IPA that used a partial boil, even an IBU guestimate of 55 is probably far too generous and it's probably significantly less.

In the case of the BJCP guidelines of American IPA, the listed ranges really do matter; the higher the OG the higher the IBUs should be.
OG: 1.056 – 1.070
IBUs: 40 – 70
FG: 1.008 – 1.014

As an example, an American barleywine can easily have IBUs of 80-100- but it's not a bitter beer. Because the OG can be 1.120- that's still only an IBU/SG ratio of .841 at the most. And because of the huge amount of sweet malt, the beer needs the higher bitterness to balance all that sweet malt flavor.

 

[Redlantern]

its sweet because that is a poorly designed IPA recipe. 18% specialty malts is way to high for an IPA. Add to that the fact you are using extract, which is notorious for not reaching a target FG and youve got a sticky sweet mess on your hands. Next time, omit all crystal malts and add some cane sugar to help dry it out

Did same with first IPA (borrowed recipe and no knowledge of % of crystal malt). Got the same results. Good lesson and now much better understanding. Long way to go, but learned from it.

 

[hayden5757]

I toned down the dme and didn't add any crystal at all. Made those 4 little 1 gallon beers. I tasted my citra one and it was really nice. It had the dryness I wanted and the sweetness was gone. The hop utilization is still a bit strange to me. Great aroma but the bitterness is still on the back of my tongue. But I haven't dry hopped yet.

I had to use a racking cane with my thumb on the hole to get a sample. My wine thief and my siphon won't fit into the opening. Does anyone have a suggestion. It's crystal clear and the sediment is tight on the bottom, so id rather not pour it.

 

[hayden5757]

Idk if anyone is still following this thread but the 4 ipas turned out great. Azacca was the one I was least excited about but it showcased the hop the best. Dank like a certain plant related to hops with a nice tropical fruit. Toning down the dme was the trick. The Belma was a bit odd flavored, but they were the least fresh hops. I'd recommend doing this sort of experimental batch for anyone else that has a limited amount of ferm vessels available. Great way to test new beers for cheap.