REAL names of yeast strains

[Bowow0708]

Hey, I was just wondering, what are the real scientific names for these particular commercial yeast strains?

Wyeast 1728 Scottish Ale
Wyeast 1098 British Ale
Whitelabs WLP001 California Ale
White Labs WLP099 Super High Gravity Ale

And I don't want the plain saccharomyces cerevisiae. I'm looking for the specific code/identification/"what ever you call it to identify one from the other" for them.

It's because I live nearby the department of science and technology (DOST) in the Philippines and a buddy told me that they have a good variety of yeast strains and other kinds of microorganisms and they just so happen sell them to students, schools, and the occasional regular joe. What this means is that I can get brewing yeast without having to order them from all the way in USA and that I know they are viable and fresh. Saves me a ton of cash and it helps to know I'm getting really really fresh and healthy yeast. And if they don't have a particular strain, I can help by ordering and giving them a sample, and maybe give them some homebrew to get me discounts *wink wink*nudge nudge*

 

[TyTanium]

This isn't what you're looking for, but maybe it'll help you get closer:
http://www.mrmalty.com/yeast.htm

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

I don't believe White Labs and Wyeast publish that information specifically to prevent what you are trying to do.

 

[erikpete18]

Yeah, as far as I've read most of them come from breweries rather than labs, and the breweries have never bothered to number them. If they did get numbered, you'd have to figure out the lab that isolated them and numbered them. Depending on the info that the DOST has, you may be able to decode the location of the lab and see if they've got any idea of where the numbers came from (about half the time the name winds up being part of either the person who isolated it, or their location).

The other option, if you're up for experimenting, is to just get a few different yeast strains from them and try them out in some gallon batches, see which ones make tasty beer. Check and make sure they're actually listed as brewers yeast (not all sacc is), but if they are the worst you'd wind up is with some beer and a good story!

 

[daksin]

Yea, the yeast companies will have internal numbers and codes for them, no doubt, but they won't be registered on any database as they're not the research varieties of S. Cerevisiae. Since they're all the same species (ostensibly) it wouldn't be much use to just guess at it. Your best bet would be calling up Wyeast and White labs and seeing if any of the oldest/most popular strains were ever registered with a research organization.

You'll have little to no luck with any strains developed in house, like NeoBrittania, WLP099, WLP090, and others that were evolved and selected in the companies' labs.

 

[KISS Brew]

Edit: Changed my opinion based on daksin's comments below.

 

[daksin]

This seems like the best option to me. Experimentation and homebrewing go hand in hand.

If these are research strains, unless you're fluent in biobabble, you have no idea what these strains are set up to produce. Most of them will have major changes to their genome, and will produce large amounts of uknown proteins from non-yeast organisms. If the department is willing to certify that the strains they're selling are for use in food and beverage, sure, go for it, but I doubt that they will do that.


Do not use research yeast for food.

 

[Bowow0708]

If these are research strains, unless you're fluent in biobabble, you have no idea what these strains are set up to produce. Most of them will have major changes to their genome, and will produce large amounts of uknown proteins from non-yeast organisms. If the department is willing to certify that the strains they're selling are for use in food and beverage, sure, go for it, but I doubt that they will do that.


Do not use research yeast for food.

Well you're right about that, but a long time ago if i remember correctly I stumbled on a yahoo group of Philippine Homebrewers and they talked about trying to get some brewers yeast locally. They mentioned the DOST and that they had brewing specific yeasts and they said that the yeasts were about 100php a test tube(about 2 bucks, which might just be at pitching numbers), just call in advanced to let them propagate it and pick up the yeast. They had some pretty good results from what I read, although the group's been inactive since 2009.

Link for the group

And isn't research yeast still yeast? I just need be careful in choosing a particular strain to avoid what you've mentioned. But hey, I might just stumble on some kind of yeast that makes a lot of fruity esters for styles that need a lot of them.

Hm, I have an idea. I have a buddy with a microbiology degree. Maybe I can order the yeast and he can "identify" which specific strains are in the packs, then I can check out the DOST if they have that strain, and if not have my buddy help me make a yeast bank. The companies can't patent the strains themselves(unless they made a completely new strain in lab like what you've mentioned) only the "common name" that's used on the packaging.

But hey, I'm like you guys trying to find ways to enjoy the hobby as economically as I can with me being in the Philippines, which when ordering abroad for ingredients and that is really stretching the term "economical". Which reminds me I'm starting to see the barest puddle, which is growing really slowly, of craft beer in the desert over here with the help of Global Beer Exchange. Now I just need to find some of their outlets.

 

[daksin]

Well you're right about that, but a long time ago if i remember correctly I stumbled on a yahoo group of Philippine Homebrewers and they talked about trying to get some brewers yeast locally. They mentioned the DOST and that they had brewing specific yeasts and they said that the yeasts were about 100php a test tube(about 2 bucks, which might just be at pitching numbers), just call in advanced to let them propagate it and pick up the yeast. They had some pretty good results from what I read, although the group's been inactive since 2009.

Link for the group

And isn't research yeast still yeast? I just need be careful in choosing a particular strain to avoid what you've mentioned. But hey, I might just stumble on some kind of yeast that makes a lot of fruity esters for styles that need a lot of them.

Hm, I have an idea. I have a buddy with a microbiology degree. Maybe I can order the yeast and he can "identify" which specific strains are in the packs, then I can check out the DOST if they have that strain, and if not have my buddy help me make a yeast bank. The companies can't patent the strains themselves(unless they made a completely new strain in lab like what you've mentioned) only the "common name" that's used on the packaging.

But hey, I'm like you guys trying to find ways to enjoy the hobby as economically as I can with me being in the Philippines, which when ordering abroad for ingredients and that is really stretching the term "economical". Which reminds me I'm starting to see the barest puddle, which is growing really slowly, of craft beer in the desert over here with the help of Global Beer Exchange. Now I just need to find some of their outlets.

Listen, I work in biological research. That's my degree, my passion, and my profession. There is no reliable way to link proprietary company data with internationally recognized strain information. You are playing with fire by even attempting it. You would be much better served by paying the big money to import a packet or two of your favorite dry yeasts, making HUGE low gravity starters of those (think tens of gallons) and then saving them to make future batches.

Research yeast isn't just yeast: it's S. Cerevisiae with genes and operons from other organisms, genetically engineered to perfectly produce those proteins and pathways so that people with PhD's from every country on this planet can accurately study those proteins- not that yeast.

I'm sure somebody's buddy has been able to make fine beer with one or two of these strains, but that's more by coincidence than by anything else. I don't care what degree your friend has- he can't "identify" these strains better than anyone else unless he wants to sequence the whole genome and cross reference it against established libraries.

Sequencing ~1kb costs about $30 USD, and the yeast genome is about 3000 times longer than 1kb. Does your buddy have ninety grand USD to burn on homebrewing projects?

This is my last post on the subject: you can listen to your friends in the Philippines homebrew contingency and roll the dice on some yeast NOT DESIGNED TO FERMENT BEER or you can order some yeast which may be moderately expensive, and be damned sure you're not going to hurt anyone.



Don't gamble with the health of your friends.






Edit2: If you care- any amount of yeast you would get from any research group would be less than 2mL and that is being EXTREMLY GENEROUS. In my lab we typically send ~10uL of bacteria or 100uL (0.1mL) of yeast when it was requested. If the labs are sending glycerol stocks (more concentrated than regular cultures), that's 50% yeast at best. I wonder how much of that survived freezing in glycerol (HINT: IT'S ALMOST NONE. THIS IS PLENTY TO GROW UP A CULTURE FOR RESEARCH, BUT NOTHING CLOSE TO ENOUGH TO FERMENT WITH). You'd have to step that up so many times your head would spin to hit reasonable pitching rates FOR A SINGLE BATCH.

Thus I present a pragmatic reason to not get yeast from DOST rather than a SAFETY ONE.

 

[Bowow0708]

Listen, I work in biological research. That's my degree, my passion, and my profession. There is no reliable way to link proprietary company data with internationally recognized strain information. You are playing with fire by even attempting it. You would be much better served by paying the big money to import a packet or two of your favorite dry yeasts, making HUGE low gravity starters of those (think tens of gallons) and then saving them to make future batches.

Research yeast isn't just yeast: it's S. Cerevisiae with genes and operons from other organisms, genetically engineered to perfectly produce those proteins and pathways so that people with PhD's from every country on this planet can accurately study those proteins- not that yeast.

I'm sure somebody's buddy has been able to make fine beer with one or two of these strains, but that's more by coincidence than by anything else. I don't care what degree your friend has- he can't "identify" these strains better than anyone else unless he wants to sequence the whole genome and cross reference it against established libraries.

Sequencing ~1kb costs about $30 USD, and the yeast genome is about 3000 times longer than 1kb. Does your buddy have ninety grand USD to burn on homebrewing projects?

This is my last post on the subject: you can listen to your friends in the Philippines homebrew contingency and roll the dice on some yeast NOT DESIGNED TO FERMENT BEER or you can order some yeast which may be moderately expensive, and be damned sure you're not going to hurt anyone.



Don't gamble with the health of your friends.






Edit2: If you care- any amount of yeast you would get from any research group would be less than 2mL and that is being EXTREMLY GENEROUS. In my lab we typically send ~10uL of bacteria or 100uL (0.1mL) of yeast when it was requested. If the labs are sending glycerol stocks (more concentrated than regular cultures), that's 50% yeast at best. I wonder how much of that survived freezing in glycerol (HINT: IT'S ALMOST NONE. THIS IS PLENTY TO GROW UP A CULTURE FOR RESEARCH, BUT NOTHING CLOSE TO ENOUGH TO FERMENT WITH). You'd have to step that up so many times your head would spin to hit reasonable pitching rates FOR A SINGLE BATCH.

Thus I present a pragmatic reason to not get yeast from DOST rather than a SAFETY ONE.

Alright, I get your point. I guess I was getting way ahead of myself and got all excited about the idea(happens way more often than I'd like to admit) of being able to get different yeasts locally. I'll try to find a different solution, like making slants/dishes from dry yeasts and make my own yeast bank. And thanks for being really frank about this, I really appreciate you explaining everything.

 

[evrose]

If these are research strains, unless you're fluent in biobabble, you have no idea what these strains are set up to produce. Most of them will have major changes to their genome, and will produce large amounts of uknown proteins from non-yeast organisms. If the department is willing to certify that the strains they're selling are for use in food and beverage, sure, go for it, but I doubt that they will do that.


Do not use research yeast for food.

I have to STRONGLY second these comments. Using research yeast for food could be VERY VERY dangerous.

For example: My wife works for a company that does a lot of genome modification to yeast. They have a strain that produces bio-diesel, and another that makes industrial lubricants. Under no circumstances should beer be made with those. Ever.

Edit: I hadn't finished reading the entire thread before posting this. I see that the idea has been conceded. Good call.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

This thread took a really interesting turn. Good info.