Rauchbier help

[eulipion2]

Over the last few years I've brewed a number of smoked beers, including two or three rauchbiers. In the past I've used a healthy portion of smoked malt (usually Weyermann); various Munich, Vienna, and Pilsner malts; with a pound or less of CaraMunich or similar type malts, and maybe some melanoidin, aromatic, biscuit, etc. for complexity and balance; but for this year's recipe I thought I'd mix it up a bit.

OG 1.054, FG 1.014, 5.3% ABV, 13 SRM

75% Best Smoked Malt
17% Melanoidin malt
8% CaraMunich III

25 IBU Hallertauer Mittelfrueh at 60 min

Fermentis S-189

Mash @ 152, boil 90 minutes, ferment @ 54, ramping up to 65-70 for a couple days, then lagering in keg for a couple months.

I like a lot of smoke in my smoked beers (don't be a wimp!), and to that end I've decided on Bestmalz (if I can find it) based on various threads claiming a greater smoke presence over Weyermann. I generally prefer simple grain bills to long lists, so I'm curious how simple I can go. I've also thought about building a non-smoked grain bill and smoking 75-100% of the grain myself -- I had great results with my home-smoked porter last year for which I smoked everything but the roasted malts.

My main concerns with the above recipe are:
1) Will that much melanoidin be harsh; should I go with something like aromatic?
2) Will I get the malt complexity/richness required for this style?
3) Will there be enough malt presence to counter all that smoke?

Feedback much appreciated.

 

[Pappers_]

I don't think of Melanoidan malt as 'harsh' - rich, umami, malty sweet are what I usually associate with it.

For me, that would be a lot of smoked malt. But I like balanced Rauchbiers, so you should follow your own palate.on that.

 

[GoeHaarden]

I've only used melanoidin in very small percentages so I can't help there, but now you have me curious as to what it would bring in a higher percentage.

IMO, I'd be a little skeptical in using the Caramunich and Melanoidin in such high percentages. If it were me, I'd dropped them to around 5% each and add 15% Munich. My last Rauchbier was close to that and it was one if the best I've ever had. Smoke was balanced perfectly...but I guess that would forego the "mixing" things up

 

[Miraculix]

I brewed a lager with 10% melanoidin (weyermann). It was quite good! No harshness of other bad flavour. It will certainly result in a strong flavour using such a high percentage, but if you like this particular flavour than give it a try!

 

[eulipion2]

I brewed a lager with 10% melanoidin (weyermann). It was quite good! No harshness of other bad flavour. It will certainly result in a strong flavour using such a high percentage, but if you like this particular flavour than give it a try!

Yeah, I figured it'd counter the smoke a little and give some complexity. Weyermann suggests up to 20%, but I've read threads where it could easily overpower a brew (maybe 'harsh' wasn't the right word). Since I'm coming close to Weyermann's 20% mark I just wanted to make sure it wouldn't be too much.

IMO, I'd be a little skeptical in using the Caramunich and Melanoidin in such high percentages. If it were me, I'd dropped them to around 5% each and add 15% Munich. My last Rauchbier was close to that and it was one if the best I've ever had. Smoke was balanced perfectly...but I guess that would forego the "mixing" things up

I've done something similar to what you suggest in the past -- pretty solid for sure! Last time I made a rauchbier I used Weyermann Dark Munich at about 30%, but it threw off waaaaaay too much "bread crust." I figure the Melanoidin will give me bread crust as well, but at about 2lbs, hopefully it'll be just right. The CaraMunich only amounts to about a pound at the 8% mark, which hasn't been too much in past brews. I'm actually hoping it's high enough to taste.

For me, that would be a lot of smoked malt. But I like balanced Rauchbiers, so you should follow your own palate.on that.

My benchmark is Aecht Schlenkerla Märzen, which IIRC uses 100% in-house smoked malt. It's intensely smokey, but still allows the rich, complex malt to come through. And the malt does tend to fade with time if it does turn out to be too much. I suppose I could stick with Weyermann smoke malt for a softer, less intense smoke character.

EDIT: The above should say, "And the smoke does tend to fade with time..."