Questions on improving Mash/Sparge Efficiency

[Coach_Hogleg]

Last night I did my second batch of all grain, it was a SMaSH with 2 row and cascades. Just wanted a basic recipe, working on my process etc. Used ten pounds for a five gallon batch, ended up with about 4 ½ gallons after the boil. This morning when I did my starting gravity reading it was extremely low 1030. So obviously I did something wrong. My mill was set the same as my first batch, I ran it through twice both times.

My batch sparge method on the first batch (about a week ago) was to add 3 gallons of 155 degree water let it sit for an hour and then run it through. Then I added three more gallons about 160 degree let it sit for 40 minutes then ran it through. I ended up with 1056 SG. Some on the board suggested I left some sugar behind, which I probably did as a rookie. So I read up on and youtubed the batch sparge method.

Last night I did the following: 3 gallons at 150 for 60 min. Then added three more gallons to the mash at 185 for the “mash out” let sit for 10 min then ran the whole six gallons through. I did not do this a second time because I had enough for my boiling point (could I have done this a second time if I needed to?). Limited supplies at the moment. This morning after letting the wort cool over night (again limited supplies) I tested the wort for potential alcohol. Now this wort was probably about 40 degrees and the reading was 1030. Not what I was looking for. Is temperature an issue, will this number improve when it warms back up to the room temperature?

So my question is this can someone please help me with the mashing process, I want to batch sparge, but obviously I’m messed up on temps, length of time and maybe the over all process. I didn’t mind my results from the first batch I made, but obviously want to max the efficiency.

 

[bootney]

I follow Bobby_M's double batch sparge method and consistently get 90% efficiency. I have word doc that I got from here somewhere. The web link I believe is suebob.com/brew

To me it's detailed, easy to understand, and I have had great success following it.

 

[DakotaRules]

Yes temp does affect the hydrometer. Your hydrometer should have a scale on the side to tell you what temp it calibrated for.

Also are you making an ale or a lager beer? If your making an ale it's way to cold at 40 degrees F and will affect your reading.

Your batch sparge was correct. You could sparge a second time and get the runnings into another pot and add to the boil.

Hope that helps.

 

[GetLooseontheGoose]

If you SG was 1.030 @ 40 deg = 1.029

Now your getting about 40% efficiency here.

First thing, like others have said before with your first batch, you will need to bring your temperatures up a little. Mash in target @ 152. your strike water should be 165. When you batch sparge target temp 165. water temp should be 185.

Just curious what was the color of the wort?

 

[CPooley4]

I'm certainly no expert. I'd recommend reading Kai's research/experiment and you'll see his results regarding optimal batch sparging. You can find that here - www.braukaiser.com.

My words of wisdom:

1. Use the 50/50 rule. 50% of your boil volume from initial mash, 50% from your sparge.
2. Get a fine crush on your grain.
3. Drain your tun dry (relatively). If you don't, you're leaving efficiency behind in the tun that should be in your boil kettle.

If you want a spreadsheet that is set up for batch sparging utilizing the 50/50 rule just pm me your email address. It will take care of all the math (and much more) for you so all you'll need to do is brew.

Good luck.

cp

 

[Coach_Hogleg]

Thanks for the responses so far,

color of the wort is a caramel color, wasn't alarming to me by sight last night similar to the color of last week's batch.

Next question, should I just throw this batch of beer out? Is it worth trying to ferment at this low of potential alcohol?

 

[Ace_Club]

...was to add 3 gallons of 155 degree water let it sit for an hour and then run it through.

Last night I did the following: 3 gallons at 150 for 60 min.

Is this temp the strike water temp or the final mash temp? If it's the strike temp, you are probably mashing too low and not getting complete conversion.

Next question, should I just throw this batch of beer out? Is it worth trying to ferment at this low of potential alcohol?

Why not ferment it? A nice little session beer.

 

[Coach_Hogleg]

Originally Posted by Coach_Hogleg
...was to add 3 gallons of 155 degree water let it sit for an hour and then run it through.

Last night I did the following: 3 gallons at 150 for 60 min.
Is this temp the strike water temp or the final mash temp? If it's the strike temp, you are probably mashing too low and not getting complete conversion.


Being new to this sometimes I use the wrong terminology. Does this help, I put 150 degree water into the mash tun. So is that my strike water temp?

I feel lost and frustrated right now. But you are right Ace no reason not to ferment this batch. I'm just disappointed in my efforts, like most things I thought I had done enough research, but then when it comes down to doing the hands on process I find I don't know poop.

 

[Ace_Club]

Being new to this sometimes I use the wrong terminology. Does this help, I put 150 degree water into the mash tun. So is that my strike water temp?

a) don't let it get you down. We all make mistakes.

b) Yes, that would be your strike temp. You need to realize that the grains and the mash tun will both use up some of that heat as they equalize in temperature. That is why you need to have a strike temperature that is greater than your desired mash temperature. This accounts for any loss in temp due to the grains and mash tun. I believe normal rule of thumb is you want your strike water about 11F higher then your desired mash temp (i.e., if you want to mash at 152F, your strike water should be at 163F). There are a lot of good calculators and guides online, just do a little reading before your next batch and you'll be fine.

 

[Coach_Hogleg]

Ace, if I'm hearing you right lets say I use the 50/50 method add 163 degree water to my mash tun, then add the grains let them sit for 60 minutes. What temperature in general should my mash out water be? Do I drain the initial three gallons before adding the mashout water or leave it in the mash tun?

 

[Ace_Club]

Drain the initial water prior to adding the sparge water.

There's lots of discussions on what temp the sparge water should be at. Since you are batch sparging, you don't have to worry about stopping conversion, so there is no need to raise the mash temp to 170F. However, there is no harm in doing so either. You are really only trying to dissolve the remaining sugars into solution so that you can get them into the BK. Shoot for the same temp as your strike water or a little higher and you should be fine.

 

[flabyboy]

Check out the water calculator at brew365.com. It will use the weight of grains and the desired mash temp to calculate your strike temperature. Just remember to preheat your mash tun first with hot water. On my last batch I put 3 gallons of strike water at 170 into my mash tun. I swirled the water around so it hit the sides and closed the lid and let it sit for 5-10 mins. When it was properly heated, I opened the lid and took a temp. It ended up being 165, which was 4 degrees too high. I just added a small amount of cold water and stirred until I was at 161. Then I mashed in, stirred vigorously, closed the lid and rechecked the temp 5 mins later. Worked perfect and held the temp for the full hour

 

[Yankeehillbrewer]

Here's what I do and it gets me 90% efficiency on most grain bills,

Preheat the MLT....if I want to Mash at 155* I will preheat with 175* water and then dough in at 165*. I stir the hell out of it until temps stabilize then I leave it alone for the duration of the Mash.

Vorlauf, drain first runnings. I run off somewhat slow, I only open my valve about a 1/3 of the way, I feel this makes a big difference.

Take a volume measurement of my runnings to figure out how much sparge water I need.

Use half of my sparge water(At 195*) for the first sparge, stir the hell out if it, and let it sit for 10 mins.

Vorlauf, Drain Second runnings

Use 2nd half of my sparge water(At 165*) for the 2nd sparge, stir the hell out if it, and let it sit for 10 mins.

Vorlauf, Drain third runnings. I like to take a hydro reading of the third runnings to make sure I'm not oversprarging.I'm usually right around 1.020

Also, consider using 5.2 pH Stabilizer. I saw a nice jump in efficiency when I starting using it. But get some pH strips and test your Mash first.

 

[dchmela]

Here's what I do and it gets me 90% efficiency on most grain bills,

Preheat the MLT....if I want to Mash at 155* I will preheat with 175* water and then dough in at 165*. I stir the hell out of it until temps stabilize then I leave it alone for the duration of the Mash.

Vorlauf, drain first runnings. I run off somewhat slow, I only open my valve about a 1/3 of the way, I feel this makes a big difference.

Take a volume measurement of my runnings to figure out how much sparge water I need.

Use half of my sparge water(At 195*) for the first sparge, stir the hell out if it, and let it sit for 10 mins.

Vorlauf, Drain Second runnings

Use 2nd half of my sparge water(At 165*) for the 2nd sparge, stir the hell out if it, and let it sit for 10 mins.

Vorlauf, Drain third runnings. I like to take a hydro reading of the third runnings to make sure I'm not oversprarging.I'm usually right around 1.020

Also, consider using 5.2 pH Stabilizer. I saw a nice jump in efficiency when I starting using it. But get some pH strips and test your Mash first.

Do you mill your own grain and, if you do, what is your mill grind set to?

 

[Yankeehillbrewer]

Do you mill your own grain and, if you do, what is your mill grind set to?

Yep, I have a Barley Crusher that is still on the stock setting, which is.039"

 

[CPooley4]

Coach Hogleg - When you take a look at the brew chart tonight make sure to look at the brewer schedule section. That will walk you through pretty much all of my steps when brewing (strike water, mash in, sparge, etc...). After you're done reviewing tonight shoot me an email and we can go over all of your questions and make sure you're ready for your next brew session. If we can't get you set over email we can even talk on the phone if you feel that would be best for you.

cp

 

[DakotaRules]

A great program to get is beersmith. It will help make recipes and calculate mash temps sparge temps and what nots. This way you don't need to go to multiple websites for conversions. It was the best $20 I ever spent.

 

[Coach_Hogleg]

Here's what I do and it gets me 90% efficiency on most grain bills,

Preheat the MLT....if I want to Mash at 155* I will preheat with 175* water and then dough in at 165*. I stir the hell out of it until temps stabilize then I leave it alone for the duration of the Mash.

Vorlauf, drain first runnings. I run off somewhat slow, I only open my valve about a 1/3 of the way, I feel this makes a big difference.

Take a volume measurement of my runnings to figure out how much sparge water I need.

Use half of my sparge water(At 195*) for the first sparge, stir the hell out if it, and let it sit for 10 mins.

Vorlauf, Drain Second runnings

Use 2nd half of my sparge water(At 165*) for the 2nd sparge, stir the hell out if it, and let it sit for 10 mins.

Vorlauf, Drain third runnings. I like to take a hydro reading of the third runnings to make sure I'm not oversprarging.I'm usually right around 1.020

Also, consider using 5.2 pH Stabilizer. I saw a nice jump in efficiency when I starting using it. But get some pH strips and test your Mash first.

Thank you for this information, your response is a big help. Again this board is awesome, much appreciated

 

[Yankeehillbrewer]

Thank you for this information, your response is a big help. Again this board is awesome, much appreciated

My pleasure, I'm glad you found it helpful. Now get brewing