Questions on if grains should be mashed or not, please help!

[merriman44]

Hello again! I made some changes to my strong sweet stout recipe and was hoping to get some questions answered. I'm looking at brewing a warm-the-cheeks, thick bodied stout with nice head retention. My goal ABV is 6.7%. I used brew target to help engineer this as well as some knowledgeable friends here. Here is my recipe:

Grain Bill
Briess - 2 Row Carapils Malt Grain 4.000 oz
Briess - Black Malt Grain 4.000 oz
Simpsons - Chocolate Malt Grain 8.000 oz
Briess - Barley Flakes Adjunct 4.000 oz

Extract:
Muntons dark DME - 2.600 lb
Liquid Extract (LME) - Amber Extract 6.000 lb

Added during or after boil:
Milk Sugar (Lactose) Sugar 8.000 oz
Corn Sugar (Dextrose) Sugar 8.000 oz (soley to raise ABV)

yeast: Wyeast - Irish Ale



My question is, should I mash my grains? I have the capacity to do this and I know it will add more of the grains character to the beer. I know that dark or roasted malts can add harsh flavors. Cold steeping is unfortunately not possible this time. So should I mash these grains or just steep them? I'm looking to get the most out of them and have no issues with experimenting.

If I mash them, do you have any advice? Also, if I'm missing something altogether, please let me know. I currently plan on mashing the grains in muslin bags in an igloo cooler and then after draining the liquid, pouring hot water (~170 degrees) over the bags and draining that liquid as well.

Thoughts for a newbie?

 

[flars]

This handy chart will answer your question.
http://beersmith.com/grain-list/
If you mash 1.25 t 1.75 quarts of mash water per pound of grains.

 

[daksin]

Yes, you'll need to mash those grains. The flaked barley is the culprit, and I suspect that's why the 2-row was included in the grain bill. It will contribute the enzymes that will convert the starches in the flaked barley into sugar for you. If you didn't have the flaked barley, you could just replace the 2-row with a bit more extract, as the other grains can just be steeped.

For mashing, it's pretty similar to steeping except you want to use only about 1.25-1.5 quarts of water per pound of grain (not including the extract), and you want to keep the temperature between 150 and 160F for about a half an hour to an hour to get the best conversion and sugar extraction. Adding water that's ~12-14 degrees F warmer than your desired mash temperature is a good rule of thumb, so 170F should be fine.

 

[Qhrumphf]

I think you can get away steeping what you've got given the style but the flaked barley really needs to be mashed. If it's not mashed you'll get some starch from it, which would contribute a haze (not that big of a deal in a stout), but also starch can provide a food source for bugs, since yeast won't eat it. If your sanitation is good, probably not an issue.

Point is it could go either way, but I'd do a small mash. Replace the .6 lbs of dark DME with a pound of 2 row, and mash all the grains at maybe 153. (I would cut both the dark and amber extract and replace them with extra light or pale, and then increase the specialty malts myself, but that's a different issue)

 

[Zoidberg]

You should add a couple lbs of 2 row pale malt or another base grain to fully convert other grains. Maybe add amalyse enzyme to aid in conversion of specialty grains

 

[Qhrumphf]

Yes, you'll need to mash those grains. The flaked barley is the culprit, and I suspect that's why the 2-row was included in the grain bill. It will contribute the enzymes that will convert the starches in the flaked barley into sugar for you. If you didn't have the flaked barley, you could just replace the 2-row with a bit more extract, as the other grains can just be steeped.

For mashing, it's pretty similar to steeping except you want to use only about 1.25-1.5 quarts of water per pound of grain (not including the extract), and you want to keep the temperature between 150 and 160F for about a half an hour to an hour to get the best conversion and sugar extraction. Adding water that's ~12-14 degrees F warmer than your desired mash temperature is a good rule of thumb, so 170F should be fine.

The 2-row it lists as Carapils. Which as far as I'm aware is a very low SRM crystal malt and doesn't need to be mashed.

 

[TANSTAAFB]

The Cara-Pils is made from two row, but does not have any diastatic power to convert itself or anything else. The flaked barley is the only thing that must be mashed, the rest can be steeped. If you plan on mashing you should add a couple of pounds of base malt, throw it all in a 5gal paint strainer bag rather than separate muslin bags, and mash at 1.25-1.5 QTS per pound in your cooler. Drain, rinse, and add all that to the kettle. Top up your water to your desired boil volume, add your DME, boil, hop as appropriate, and add the LME w/ about 10-15 minutes left in the boil.

Boom, you just did a partial mash!

 

[daksin]

Wow, you're right! I totally misread that. You'll want to add some 2-row malt to get some enzymes to convert the flaked barley, or you could just leave out the flaked barley and steep everything else.

 

[merriman44]

Thanks fellas!

I've removed the Barley flakes from the equation and added a bit more sugar (now at 12 ounces) to even out the ABV. So I will steep my grains at 160 for about 45 minutes and then boil on from there.

I have enough leftover grains (already have everything) that I think I'm going to do a partial mash next time and add 2lb of 2-row and get rid of some DME. This will give me a really nice compare/contrast between the two brewing techniques and hopefully add to my reportoire.

You guys are the best!!