Questions about Wyeast and a Belgian Tripel

[Snoogles]

Ok, I'm getting ready to brew my second brew and I'm trying to make sure I don't screw anything up because I spent a lot of money on this Belgian Tripel kit, haha! (my first brew is currently stalled at 1.02 which is part of my worries)

This is the kit that I'm talking about http://www.keystonehomebrew.com/shop/beer/ingredients/kits/belgian-tripel-box-kit.html and I am also doing additional partial mash of 2Lbs light malt


My main question is about the yeast. I'm planning on brewing this Friday night so if I need to make a starter I guess I'd have to make it TONIGHT. I've got conflicting information about whether a starter is necessary or not. Some people say its necessary for high gravity beers (or that I need to use two packs), some say its only necessary if its a propagator pack and not an activator pack. The yeast in this kit is 3787 TRAPPIST HG. According to the package it says if I'm gonna have an OG of over 1.6 I may need two packets BUT the website says this yeast is good for up to 11-12% Maybe the packet is a generic packet and the directions aren't intended for high gravity yeast?

Part of me thinks that making a starter is just one more thing I could screw up What the heck should I do?! Also, my house is pretty cold lately, very low 60's So I won't be able to ferment it very warm. Please someone help this noob!! Thanks

 

[Trokair]

From what I've read it is always best to make a starter. It will lower the stress on the yeast especially in higher OG beers. Doesn't matter if it is dry, test tube, or activator.

I pitched my first beer (Belgian Dubbel) only with the test tube and I'm afraid I may have a stuck fermentation. I immediatly bought a Starter Kit after that and plan to use it for each and every beer.

 

[40watt]

http://www.mrmalty.com/

Making a starter is easy. I started making them on my second brew. Use the above site to help get a grip on the size starter you should have.

Go to the yeast forum and read how to make a starter.

 

[PseudoChef]

Do you have any idea what the gravity is supposed to be? And why the two extra pounds of malt? I'd steer away from this - a Tripel needs attenuation and to dry out. Adding more malt is going to inhibit this.

But if you have liquid yeast, yes, make a starter. Probably in the ball-park of 3-4 liters (go to the Mr. Malty link recommended to really dial it in). While the yeast is capable of getting to 12% (and possibly even beyond), you want to decrease any unnecessary ester and phenol formation while it does this - and getting your cell count adequate will ensure this.

Doesn't matter if it is dry, test tube, or activator.

Actually, it does matter. Dry yeasts are packaged with many more cells than liquid yeasts and also contain reserve nutrients that are actually depleted and spent when you make a starter. Rehydrate them in warm water. If you need more yeast, simply rehydrate two packs.

 

[Snoogles]

The gravity is supposed to be 9% or so I believe. I was planning adding the two lbs of malt because I wanted to do "martial mash" and begin learning to mash grains and all that. Wha'ts the difference if I add more malt to a tripel, doesen't that just make it closer to a Quad?

3-4 Liters? WHOA that's way more then I've seen any starter DIY recommend. I thought it was supposed to be like, under a liter? I went to the Mr Malty and messed around with the calculator, Honestly I had no Idea what was going on....

 

[40watt]

The gravity is supposed to be 9% or so I believe. I was planning adding the two lbs of malt because I wanted to do "martial mash" and begin learning to mash grains and all that. Wha'ts the difference if I add more malt to a tripel, doesen't that just make it closer to a Quad?

3-4 Liters? WHOA that's way more then I've seen any starter DIY recommend. I thought it was supposed to be like, under a liter? I went to the Mr Malty and messed around with the calculator, Honestly I had no Idea what was going on....

Figure out how big of a starter you want later. Just start one about a liter, and step it up until you are satisfied. While you're waiting, start working on understanding Mr.Malty. I just wing it a bit...cause that's who I am. I do about a half liter starter for small beers. 2 liters for 40+, 3 liters for 70+, for anything over 90 I'd just wash a yeast cake from a small beer, and use that. This keeps me from having to think to much. I've got enough **** on my mind.

BTW, it's not like you are adding 3 liters of liquid. In most cases you would decant the liquid and just pitch the yeast at the bottom of your starter vessel.

If that doesn't make sense, spend the rest of the day reading the yeast forum.

 

[40watt]

Also, 9% is your projected ABV. Look at your recipe for the OG(original gravity).

 

[PseudoChef]

It doesn't really make it closer to a quad. It might boost the overall gravity, but then you're sacrificing the body of the beer. One of the traits of a Tripel is a dry finish, despite it's high alcohol content. You don't want a sickly, sweet beer and since you already seem to be above your head in making the starter (which is also there to ensure complete fermentation) I would leave it out. Practice your mashing on a lower gravity beer. Again, that's just me, and you should do what you want - learning comes best through practice anyway!

Also, that's the percent alcohol you listed, not the starting gravity. Do you have the recipe handy? You should see something like, "expected OG: 1.080" or a number that looks like that. For example, for 5 gallons of 1.080 starting gravity wort, you will want close to 3 liters (and that's with a very recent yeast production date) of starter, and that's with intermittant shaking.

 

[Snoogles]

Ok, I'm not at all concerned with this coming out as a "traditional tripel" I'm using double the hops to kinda go for a raging ***** type belgian IPA sort of thing and also adding coriander, I highly despise the idea of just purchasing a kit and brewing as is. If I wanted a belgian tripel I would just go buy one. I like the creative process, I guess thats just me, gotta mess with everything! If you really think the extra 2lbs of light malt would be an issue I guess I won't do it.... How would it end up sweet though? If im pitching yeast that can handle a 11-12% beer wouldn't it not have any problem eating up all the sugars ESPECIALLY if I'm doing a starter?

I'll be home later tonight and I'll be able to get the SG info form the directions, although thats when I'll need to be making the starter...Does a starter need to be 2 days old or can it be one?

This all seems to be getting incredibly complicated incredibly quick. My main question is, Why is it important to use a starter if the kit directions say to just dump the Smack pack directly into my wort? If I need more yeast then why does the kit come with an insufficient amount? Thanks for all the help everyone.

 

[40watt]

Because the directions tell you how to make beer...not good beer.

It would save you a lot of trouble to just read the stickies around here, or How to Brew...which you can get by using Google.

There is no set amount of time for making a starter. The yeast just need time to reproduce, which is their first order of business when in the presence of suger. If you do this in a starter, the yeast will produce fewer off flavors as they will be better equipped to do big job.

If you want to make a big assed beer, you are asking far too much of one lowly smack pack.

 

[40watt]

BTW, I don't know what your first beer was, but not making a starter is the kind of thing that causes your fermentation to peeder out at 1.02.

Don't worry though, given time it should ferment out...maybe. It just won't taste as good as it could have.

 

[beergolf]

Just because the yeast says it can tolerate 11-12% alcohol does not mean it will ferment out if you do not pitch the PROPER amount of yeast. For a beer that big a starter is necessary.

 

[Piratwolf]

This all seems to be getting incredibly complicated incredibly quick. My main question is, Why is it important to use a starter if the kit directions say to just dump the Smack pack directly into my wort? If I need more yeast then why does the kit come with an insufficient amount? Thanks for all the help everyone.

I think what you're running into is why people take it a bit easy at first. I think I did 5-6 kits before I started making slight changes. The key to getting great beer is a consistent and informed process, and there's only one way--experience. You've started with a tough beer (trippel) and have tried to make major changes.

Starters aren't necessary, but pitching the right amount of healthy yeast is key to great beer. And one pack of dry yeast in 5gal of 11% ABV is far from optimal.

Good news is, it'll be drinkable and it will be a learning experience! Take notes so you can figure what worked & what didn't

 

[40watt]

Starters are too easy. You already have the liquid yeast. It's not as if any dry yeast would taste right.
Belgians are all about the yeast.

If you are a visual learner, try watching this. A Trippel is a big beer. You not only need a starter, you need to step it up.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/stepping-up-yeast-starter-video-203069/

 

[Snoogles]

Ok recipe sheet says my OG is 1.081, FG is 1.013 Alcohol content is 8.7. I'm currently watching and reading everything I can about Yeast starters but any cheater tips would be greatly appreciated.