Question on conditioning

[Gaviao]

So I'm getting to a point where I want to brew on a more consistent basis... perfect right?

The only problem is that I don't have a "beer" fridge, and getting one is not feasible right now so I put all of it in our normal refrigerator which of course is also full of.... well.... food.

So really my question is...

Is beer fine to leave in the cellar for awhile or does it need to spend some time conditioning in the fridge before it's ready?

 

[unionrdr]

It should be left to carb & condition at 70F or a lil better for 3-4 weeks. Then a cooler storage area is ok. At least one week in the fridge to allow any chill haze to form & settle. Then let co2 from the head space diffuse into the beer. for good carbonation & head. 2 weeks gives longer lasting carbonation & thicker head.

 

[J187]

So I'm getting to a point where I want to brew on a more consistent basis... perfect right?

The only problem is that I don't have a "beer" fridge, and getting one is not feasible right now so I put all of it in our normal refrigerator which of course is also full of.... well.... food.

So really my question is...

Is beer fine to leave in the cellar for awhile or does it need to spend some time conditioning in the fridge before it's ready?

You're referring to the information you have heard about the temperature of stored beer and the colder the better I assume? Well, yes, that's true. After carbonation and conditioning occurs at 70ish, if you want to move your beer to long term storage and can keep it at fridge temps, that's great! Most beer will keep years like that. Prob is, most of don't have a fridge for beer, and if we do, we'd rather ferment in it than store beer!

To answer you, yes, cellar temps are fine for most beer storage. Unless you plan to keep your beer for years and years before drinking it, most beers will do fine a few months at cellar temps or even just below 70. A few exceptions obviously - some beers like IPAs you want to consume relatively quickly as they tend to fade after a couple months or so.

 

[Wynne-R]

I’m going to quibble with unionrdr. For bottle conditioning, It may be a good idea to chill the beer for two weeks, but it’s not ‘cause CO2 will go from the headspace into the beer and back. CO2 is produced in the beer and migrates to the headspace to equalize the partial pressure. It doesn’t go back. Gas doesn’t go from low pressure to high pressure. It can’t.

To the OP, you can chill ‘em in the freezer and it’s still pretty good. Chilling ahead of time is a good idea, but it’s not a requirement.

 

[Mozart]

I’m going to quibble with unionrdr. For bottle conditioning, It may be a good idea to chill the beer for two weeks, but it’s not ‘cause CO2 will go from the headspace into the beer and back. CO2 is produced in the beer and migrates to the headspace to equalize the partial pressure. It doesn’t go back. Gas doesn’t go from low pressure to high pressure. It can’t.

Are you certain the CO2 doesn't go back into solution?

It's my understanding that gasses are more soluble in cold water than in warm.

Isn't this why we advice chilling down overcarbed beers prior to opening them, or why a warm can of soda will gusher while a cold one will not?

 

[govner1]

The CO2 will indeed go into solution (beer) at a lower temp. The solubility of a gas is inversely proportional to the temp.
That's why a hot soda will fizz more- same w/ beer.

 

[unionrdr]

I’m going to quibble with unionrdr. For bottle conditioning, It may be a good idea to chill the beer for two weeks, but it’s not ‘cause CO2 will go from the headspace into the beer and back. CO2 is produced in the beer and migrates to the headspace to equalize the partial pressure. It doesn’t go back. Gas doesn’t go from low pressure to high pressure. It can’t.

To the OP, you can chill ‘em in the freezer and it’s still pretty good. Chilling ahead of time is a good idea, but it’s not a requirement.

Cold liquids do indeed absorb co2 more readilly than warm liquids. Carbing & conditioning at 70F or more produces the gas to begin with. most of which will pressurize in the head space till it reaches the saturation point of the space. Then it very slowly goes into solution. Fridge time & temps just make the process easier,thus faster. And yes,gasses can go from low to high pressure. How do you think we get cylinders of welding gasses,& gasses the hospital & dr's use? They are compressed in those heavy walled cylinders. Some gasses reach crytical mass in a given space & liquify. Like LP gas. Or like hydrogen on Jupiter. It goes from a gas in the cloud tops,to seas of liquid hydrogen to a core of metallic hydrogen. I'd love to be able to see what metallic hydrogen looks like! So given enough pressure within a given space,gasses can compress & even change states. Also,water,unlike gasses can't be compressed.
And chilling in the freezer will not have the same effect as a week in the fridge. Trust me,many of us have been there already...

 

[Wynne-R]

For the CO2 actually dissolved in the beer, the situation is considerably more complicated because of liquid and gas interactions. Fortunately. A relationship called Henry’s law applies to this situation. It states that the concentration of a slightly soluble gas (e.g., CO2and O2) is directly proportional to the partial pressure of the gas.

- George Fix, “Principles of Brewing Science”.

The solubility of CO2 in water is slight. Yeah, it’s a little more at colder temperatures, but what’s twice nothin’?

The carbonation we know and love is the result of pressure. The partial pressure in the liquid and the gas will equalize.

Gas/liquid solubility is less of a chemical reaction, it’s more a sharing of space.

 

[hvjackson]

The solubility of CO2 in water is slight. Yeah, it’s a little more at colder temperatures, but what’s twice nothin’?

The carbonation we know and love is the result of pressure. The partial pressure in the liquid and the gas will equalize.

Gas/liquid solubility is less of a chemical reaction, it’s more a sharing of space.

This is wrong. The CO2 *does* dissolve in the water / beer, just the same way sugar or salt can.

CO2 is highly soluble in water compared to lots of other gases. E.g. there are some charts here:
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/gases-solubility-water-d_1148.html

Notice that the solubility of CO2 is about 100 times higher than nitrogen (the main component of air) and about 50 times higher than O2. That's why nitrogen doesn't (really) dissolve in water, even under pressure. [That chart shows solubility in "g/kg", not "volumes" as homebrewers are used to thinking in, so it's not a perfect comparison. But you can at least see that CO2 really is way more soluble than other common gases.]

If carbonation were just a mechanical mixing as you suggest, you would expect the CO2 to settle out after a while.

 

[Wynne-R]

CO2 is 1.977 g/L at 1 atm. CO2 in the air is .04%, so that’s .0008 g/L.

If you carbonate your beer to 2.5 volumes, that’s 4.94 g/L.

Sucrose solubility is 2000g/L, salt is 350g/L. It’s not the same.

So what you say is true, just not on any meaningful scale for our purposes.

 

[BigFloyd]

Take one bottle from room temp conditioning and put it in the fridge for 5 days.

Then, take another out of the same batch and put it in the same fridge just long enough to chill it.

Open and pour both beers using the same method into the same type of glass.

You will see a significant difference in the pourability, head retention and retained carbonation. Also, the yeast trub on the 5-day bottle will stay in the bottom better and not as easily pour out with your beer.

When I give a bottle of my brew to someone, I strongly encourage them to give it at least 3 days in the fridge before drinking.

 

[hvjackson]

It's true that the solubility of sucrose and salt is higher than CO2, but my point was the CO2 is still dissolving the same way. At 2.5 volumes, you have 4.94 g/L of CO2 dissolved. It's really dissolved, not just mixed. And when the temp gets colder or the pressure gets higher, you really do dissolve more CO2.