question for those using a rectangular cooler foramash tun

[Toecutter]

Hi, I am trying different methods to increase my efficiency. I am using a 52 quart coleman cooler with a copper manifold, have tried batch sparging, and recently built a rectangular copper sparge manifold with a pond pump for the sparge water.

I brew ales, normally use 12-13 lbs of various graines. I usually mash at 153, but also 150, trying to increase efficiency. I mash in with 1.25 quarts per lb of grain and sparge at just above 170 and shoot for 6.5 gallons pre boil for a 5 gallon batch. I have my grain milled at my local HBS as the do it free.

so with all that in mind, the best OG pre boil I have been able to achieve is 1.052, but mostly below 1.050 checked with a calibrated hydrometer.

I have heard there could be problems with channeling. I adjusted the size of my copper manifold to try and compensate.

My next step is to try a rectangular False Bottom to put above the copper manifold to help with channeling. Has anyone tried this??

any other advice is gladly accepted.

thanks

 

[Bensiff]

First you want to figure out what your efficiency is and see if it is consistent. Telling us how much grain you usually use and general numbers of OG doesn't really tell us anything...not saying that to be rude, just as a point of fact.

A lot of things impact efficiency, you can get excellent numbers with batch or fly sparging, manifolds or false bottoms, and so on.

Probably the single largest impact you will have on efficiency (and consistency) is getting your own grain mill so you can control the crush. This would be a far better investment than a custom false bottom for a cooler. As a side note, that is a big cooler for so little grain, what does your grain bed depth look like? It might help to have a smaller cooler or step up to 10 gallon batches.

 

[Toecutter]

First you want to figure out what your efficiency is and see if it is consistent. Telling us how much grain you usually use and general numbers of OG doesn't really tell us anything...not saying that to be rude, just as a point of fact.

A lot of things impact efficiency, you can get excellent numbers with batch or fly sparging, manifolds or false bottoms, and so on.

Probably the single largest impact you will have on efficiency (and consistency) is getting your own grain mill so you can control the crush. This would be a far better investment than a custom false bottom for a cooler. As a side note, that is a big cooler for so little grain, what does your grain bed depth look like? It might help to have a smaller cooler or step up to 10 gallon batches.

Thanks for your response. No rudeness taken. I am here to learn from those with more experience. My goal is to get the best OG from a giving amount of grain, so i can get a little better alcohol %. my beers have all tasted pretty good, just want a little more buzz in them.

anyway, i recently got a good deal on a 15 gallon brew pot soi will be stepping up to 10 gallon batches.

I had considered that my LHBS is not crushing the grain well since my efficiencies are consistancies are consistantly low. I'm willing to invest in a grain mill, and would welcome suggestion to a good one.

 

[Bensiff]

I have a 3 roller Monster Mill that I hooked up to a 1/2 hp cap start motor, I love it...other's will likely tell you the other ones are awesome too, which I'm sure they are. I would actually argue against chasing extremely high efficiency. There are good reasons to have lower efficiencies too, which I personally think outweigh the small savings in grain of higher efficiencies. I get right about 78% +- 1% which I have been considering backing off my mill spacing to drop the efficiency down about 5%.

I'm confused, are you going for more alcohol or are you going for better extraction efficiency? If the former add more grain and toss in some sugar, get a solid fermentation and you will get your ABV. If the latter, I say get yourself a Monster Mill or equivalent.

 

[Toecutter]

I have a 3 roller Monster Mill that I hooked up to a 1/2 hp cap start motor, I love it...other's will likely tell you the other ones are awesome too, which I'm sure they are. I would actually argue against chasing extremely high efficiency. There are good reasons to have lower efficiencies too, which I personally think outweigh the small savings in grain of higher efficiencies. I get right about 78% +- 1% which I have been considering backing off my mill spacing to drop the efficiency down about 5%.

I'm confused, are you going for more alcohol or are you going for better extraction efficiency? If the former add more grain and toss in some sugar, get a solid fermentation and you will get your ABV. If the latter, I say get yourself a Monster Mill or equivalent.

Thanks for all your help. I'm a bit of a newbee to this so I may sound confused to you and I probably am. In my thinking, the higher efficiency I get for a given amount of grain = more fermentable suger= higher OG. mabee i have it all wrong

I have a taste for hoppy amber ales like Stone APA. i think its original OG is 1.060-1.065

 

[gmartin]

Getting a higher rate of extraction from a given amount of malt may give you bragging rights for an efficient mashing/lautering process, but overdoing it may extract things other than the fermentable sugars you're looking for. Any of the basic texts on mashing should tell you how to calculate what percentage of the (theoretical) total sugars of the malt you're getting. You have to look at both the s.g. and the volume of the liquor you've produced.

Note that the longer you sparge, the more volume of liquor you produce, and the more sugars you extract, but the thinner the wort will be.

Also remember that boiling will reduce the wort volume by about a gallon, so if you start out with 6 gallons at 1.050, thats 300 points of extract; when reduced to 5 gallons, you'll have 300/5 or 60 points per gallon, 1.060, which is respectable for a starting gravity for fermentation.

To get more extract in your wort you can
1) improve your mashing efficiency by improving your procedures or equipment. But this may already be ok.

Or -
2) if you're currently getting a gravity of say 1.050 in your collected wort, and want 1.060, add about 20% more grain and adjust your mash and sparging water accordingly.

Or -
3) after the fact, if your gravity is too low, add some additional malt extract to correct it. As I recall, DME gives about 35 points per pound, so if you needed to correct 6 gallons of wort at say sg 1.040 and you wanted a final boiled wort of 5 gallons at 1.060, you're starting with 40 x 6 or 240 points; you want 60 x 5, or 300 points. You need to add (300 -240) or 60 points. At 35 points per poind for DME, you need to add 60/35 or 1.71 pounds of extract - call it 1 3/4 pounds, or 1 pound 12 oz.

 

[pericles]

Efficiency is measured in comparison to laboratory experiments done under conditions that you can't - and wouldn't - replicate as a brewer. They grind the grain into dust (literally) and use all kinds of equipment that we don't have. The process permits them to get 100% of the fermentable sugars out of the grain.

This isn't desirable for brewing though. Your target should be in the 70-80% range. Any higher, and you're extracting additional compounds that will create off-flavors.

 

[gmartin]

Just for fun I looked up Dave Line's chapter on degrees of extract in "The Big Book of Brewing" He sez most base malts have a maximum extract of about 30 degrees. So your 13 pounds of malt gives you 390 degrees of extract max. If you're getting 6.5 gallons with an sg of 1.052, that 6.5*52 or 338 degrees of extract; 338/390 is 86.6%. I think you're doing very well. And after the boil, now with a 5 gallon volume, you should have an sg of 1.068, which I gather is what you're shooting for.

If I misunderstood your post, and you have an sg of 1.052 after the boil for a 5 gallon volume, you're getting 260 degrees of extract, 260/390 gives you 67%, which is a llittle on the low side, but nothing to worry about. Just use more grain or correct with DME

 

[IamNash]

Keep in mind, a pound or two of 2 row is around $1.50-$2.00 if you are buying 50 pound sacks, so investing in additional equipment just to up your efficiency a bit would take many many batches to pay off. Instead, I would take detailed notes of your exact process and try to tweak it with your existing setup to get your efficiency up, but the big picture is that you want it to be consistent and predictable so you hit your target gravity every time.

Here are some notes that I see missing from your post: Are you sparging in one batch or splitting the sparge into two batches? What is your mash temp ending up at after the 60 minute mash? What is the gravity of the first runnings vs the sparge runnings? These are things I would measure every time so you can have a long running history of notes to compare to and make minute adjustments each time.

Also, you mentioned adjusting the mash temperature in your post. Mash temperature may affect efficiency, but it also affects the ratio of fermentables to non-fermentables in the wort. If you mash at a lower temperature like 150, you are going to end up with a highly fermentable wort, resulting in a lower relative final gravity, and a beer with less body or mouth feel in the end. Of course, it will have more alcohol, but without any malt backbone to stand up to that, it might end up tasting like boozy hop-water. Unless you are intentionally trying to tweak your final gravity, I would stick in the 153-154 range.

 

[Toecutter]

Thanks for everyones help here. I learned a lot. looks like the best bet is to add additional grain to the recipe. I alsothink I'll invest in a Refractometer, so i get the most accurate gravity reading. also possibly a grain mill.

thanks again