Punkelweizen

[Sir Humpsalot]

Yes, it's another pumpkin beer thread!

But this one has a twist. It's not an ordinary pumpkin beer. In fact, I'm not really a fan of pumpkin beers in general. Actually, I've only ever had one good one in my life-- from Flossmoor Station Brewing Company, about 8 years ago. From what I remembered, the beer was cloudy, orange, and really smooth and almost creamy tasting.

I didn't start out to make a Pumpkin beer. In fact, I was going to follow my 34 year old life tradition of NOT brewing one again this year. However, I had a WLP300 Hefeweizen yeast cake sitting around that I wasn't quite ready to toss out after having made 3 rounds of good Hefeweizen on it. I didn't want to make another 5 gallons of Hefeweizen though because fall is coming, so I started thinking about something a bit darker, and then it occurred to me...The flavor of a WLP300 wheat beer might actually make a tasty pumpkin beer. But, to bring it more in line with the fall season and the cooler temperatures, and for the sake of having a really cool name for my beer, I opted to design something with just a hint of darkness to it, and Punkelweizen was born.

It has just been carbed, after about 2 weeks in primary, and I must say, this is a damned fine Pumpkin Dunkelweiss. But please, don't bother following my recipe. I actually think that it would be really hard to screw up a Punkelweizen no matter what you added. The flavors just flat out work so well together. So have fun with it! But with that said, here's mine...

Punkelweizen
Brew Type: All Grain Date: 9/7/2012
Style: Dunkelweizen Brewer:
Batch Size: 5.00 gal Assistant Brewer:
Boil Volume: 5.72 gal Boil Time: 60 min
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.0 % Equipment: My Equipment
Actual Efficiency: 73.0 %

Taste Rating (50 possible points): Yum!
The color is technically too light for the Dunkelweizen style, but I'm taking some artistic license here. I wanted the beer to have an autumnal orangish-pumpkin color.

Ingredients Amount Item Type % or IBU
3.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 35.8 %
3.00 lb White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 35.8 %
1.25 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 14.9 %
1.00 lb Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 11.9 %
0.75 oz Hallertauer [4.10%] (60 min) Hops 11.4 IBU
20.00 oz Pumpkin Puree (Boil 0.0 min) Misc
0.13 lb Brown Sugar, Dark (50.0 SRM) Sugar 1.6 %
2 Tbsp Durkee ground Pumpkin Spice

Beer Profile Estimated Original Gravity: 1.047 SG (1.044-1.056 SG) Measured Original Gravity: 1.046 SG
Estimated Final Gravity: 1.012 SG (1.010-1.014 SG) Measured Final Gravity: 1.010 SG
Estimated Color: 9.9 SRM (14.0-23.0 SRM) Color [Color]
Bitterness: 11.4 IBU (10.0-18.0 IBU) Alpha Acid Units: 0.6 AAU
Estimated Alcohol by Volume: 4.5 % (4.3-5.6 %) Actual Alcohol by Volume: 4.7 %
Actual Calories: 202 cal/pint


Process notes:

Spread the pumpkin puree out on a sheet of parchment paper, sprinkle with the brown sugar, bake at 350*F for 45-60 minutes. You will add this to your wort at flame out. Or, if you're using a wort chiller, maybe add it with about 10 minutes to go in the boil.

Pumpkin spices are added at flame out if you are slow-cooling in a bathtub like I am. If you have a wort chiller, maybe add it with about 10 minutes left.


The result? A beautifully cloudy, autumnal orange beer with a hint of pumpkin and a touch of spices in the background.

I'm a convert to pumpkin beers and I will be brewing this one again.


Possible tweaks and other thoughts:

If you really wanted to, this beer would easily stand up to another Tbsp of pumpkin spice. It already has the banana clove thing going and a bit more wouldn't be bad. But I'm happy with it being a bit more mellow.

Ferment at a warmer temp to bring out the "banana" flavor of the yeast... but in this case, call it "pumpkin/squash flavor". Trust me. Your palate will go along with that.

Go ahead and add another can or three of pumpkin puree if your fermenters can handle the trub. Personally, not being a pumpkin fan, I was erring on the side of caution by using 2 x 10oz cans. If you add more though, you can ferment at a lower temp and bring out more clove flavors to balance it out.

In this case, I think it's totally appropriate to design the beer by color, aiming for a pumpkin hue. Although it will technically be too light for a dunkweizen, consider this to be a brewer's artistic license. With the crystal and the munich malts, you're going to have a sweeter, darker beer than the traditional hefe. So in that sense, it's "dark". But it's not dunkel... it's just Punkel.

 

[nukebrewer]

Based on the title alone this sounds like an awesome idea. Reading through your recipe and tasting notes makes me want to brew it right now. I have everything I would need to make it except the wheat malt and the hops, but I could sub in Styrian Goldings and probably still be alright. This might have to be my new on deck beer and I'll brew it when I get a chance. Thanks for the recipe share!

 

[Sir Humpsalot]

Actually some English style hops might do well with this recipe. I stayed with the traditional bittering-only hop addition, but I'm envisioning a hint of spicy character... maybe a hint of Saaz or something like that for aroma.

IMO, Autumn is all about the smells and a little bit of a spicy hop aroma might fit in well. But it'd have to be fairly subtle. This beer just simply wouldn't work as a hop bomb. I'm guessing that anything pushing about 20 IBU's would start to get confusing... I'm at 11 IBU's and it's good.

Also, I don't like the idea of bumping up the gravity of this beer too much. It occurred to me that for seasonal beers, you want them to be ready and drinkable during the season. Sure, you could make an Imperial Punkelweizen in June to be ready for fall, but it seems disingenuous somehow. This is a lowish-gravity beer, ready to drink quickly, in season, with the right color, and quite a bit of sweetness, almost like a desert beer. It should go well with a slice of pumpkin pie. That is what I'm envisioning a Punkelweizen to be.

I don't normally share a lot of recipes. I'm not stingy with them, I just don't think most of my beers are so beyond what's already out there to be worth creating a thread about them. But yeah.. Punkelweizen? That's a pretty cool name. And any brewer familiar with the Dunkelweizen style is probably going to think about that and intuitively see how pumpkin could work well. So then it's just the art of getting the color right.

7.5 to 11 SRM is probably about where you want to be.

It's kind of strange, to me at least, to be designing a beer based on color. But if you think about how much appearance impacts our perception of flavor, it actually makes a lot of sense. It's a pumpkin beer. It is pumpkin colored. It's not clear and crisp like summertime, it's murky and cloudy like an autumn sky, a harbinger for the coming cold. It's just a very cool take on the style, tweaked into something that is its own thing.

 

[nukebrewer]

I agree about getting a little hop character in there to spice things up a bit. Not crazy, but there. I did that with my pumpkin ale that I just bottled. I did a single bittering addition and a single 10 minute late addition. On bottling day it was really good. The light hop flavor and aroma played very nicely with the pumpkin and pumpkin pie spices. I'm anxious to see how it goes over with my family who usually don't like even slightly hoppy beers.

 

[Madsciontst]

I am going to brew the punkelweizen. I showed the recipe to the lbs and got a looks good. This will be my first all grain brew.

 

[rorymcg]

Thank you for the recipe! I brewed this yesterday (9/15/13) with the minor tweaks suggested:

34.00 oz of Pumpkin Puree (Boil 10 mins)
3 Tblsp of ground Pumpkin Spice (Boil 10 mins)

I used an immersion chiller so I decided to take the advice and add the puree and spices 10 mins left in the boil. I also used a Belgian yeast strain to get some fruity esters. With the additional Puree, my OG ended up being around 1.52. Checked this morning and the air lock is bubbling away. All looks well. This is my first pumpkin beer and it smelled great. I'm very excited to see how it turns out. I will post my results in a few weeks.

 

[RonPopeil]

i've devised an off the wall punk creation as well. mine split pumpkin and butternut squash, included lactose for creaminess and used pumpkin chai tea for tannins/bitterness and some spice.

 

[Madsciontst]

I brewed the Punkelweizen. Its bubbling away as I type. Everything went pretty good ,being this is my first all grain batch, except for my SG. 1.030, but the wort was still around 80 degrees. So worst case I'll have a lower abv beer.

 

[RonPopeil]

I brewed the Punkelweizen. Its bubbling away as I type. Everything went pretty good ,being this is my first all grain batch, except for my SG. 1.030, but the wort was still around 80 degrees. So worst case I'll have a lower abv beer.

80 degrees isn't far from the typical 60 degree hydrometer calibration. you're probably around 1.032.

using this:

http://www.davesdreaded.com/homebrew-calculator/

i have you around 3% abv assuming you finish at 1.008 @ 68F. if i were you i'd whip up a half gallon of 1.070 wort using DME and pitch it in the next 2-3 days. try to get it over 4% at least.

 

[Madsciontst]

Would it be that bad to have a low abv beer.

 

[tennesseean_87]

If that's a question, you need one of these: {?}. I like session beers, but I think with a pumpkin beer you want sweetness and mouth-feel, both lacking in a 3% beer. I'd boil up some wheat extract. Use Brewtarget or other software to find out how much you need.

 

[Hello]

If that's a question, you need one of these: {?}. I like session beers, but I think with a pumpkin beer you want sweetness and mouth-feel, both lacking in a 3% beer. I'd boil up some wheat extract. Use Brewtarget or other software to find out how much you need.

How do you tell what the abv will be without the FG?

 

[RonPopeil]

Would it be that bad to have a low abv beer.

thats a matter of preference. I'm a big/bold beer person.

It's not about the alcohol as much as it's about what else is going on aside from alcohol. Some residual sweetness would be beneficial since you're using favors that people associate with sweetness. With such a low OG you don't have much meat on the bone.

 

[RonPopeil]

How do you tell what the abv will be without the FG?

yeast attenuation. Most yeasts have a predictable attenuation rate. Since this recipe doesn't have simple sugars or tons of crystal grain we can assume a common yeast attenuation. There's other factors that can effect attenuation like mash temps but that has much less impact than super fermentables and non-fermentables.

Actually i just looked at the recipe again and the grain bill is 15% crystal 40. 3% abv might be a struggle.

 

[Madsciontst]

I'm just gonna leave it be and brew it again in a week or so. This was my first all grain batch. I'll gat it right.

 

[Black Island Brewer]

Yes, it's another pumpkin beer thread! [Lots of good stuff deleted] So in that sense, it's "dark". But it's not dunkel... it's just Punkel.

I just have to tell you this is an awesome post. You, sir, are my kind of brewer!

 

[Madsciontst]

It looks like I started something. I can't wait to drink it.

 

[rorymcg]

Update: Brewed this on 9/15/13 and had an OG of 1.052. Checked today and it is already at 1.01 so I racked to my secondary and will take another reading next week to see if they are ready for bottling.

 

[Madsciontst]

Can you tell me what bash profile you used and your temps.

 

[seckert]

I have been looking to brew a pumpkin something or other within the next week or so...I think I found my base for my recipe. thanks for the inspiration!:rockin:

 

[FredTheNuke]

Update: Brewed this on 9/15/13 and had an OG of 1.052. Checked today and it is already at 1.01 so I racked to my secondary and will take another reading next week to see if they are ready for bottling.

What are the samples tasting like thus far? I intend to brew this Sunday with your tweaks plus a few of my own.

15 gallon batch

3.5 oz Saaz pellets for 60 minutes
12 oz dark brown sugar baked on puree @ 350F for 60 mins
5 lbs Munich Malt (6 SRM)
6 lbs Crystal 20L
10 lbs German Pilsner Malt
10 lbs Light German Wheat Malt
90 oz pumpkin puree last 10 mins of boil
9 tablespoons pumpkin spice last 10 mins of boil

 

[rorymcg]

What are the samples tasting like thus far? I intend to brew this Sunday with your tweaks plus a few of my own.

15 gallon batch

3.5 oz Saaz pellets for 60 minutes
12 oz dark brown sugar baked on puree @ 350F for 60 mins
5 lbs Munich Malt (6 SRM)
6 lbs Crystal 20L
10 lbs German Pilsner Malt
10 lbs Light German Wheat Malt
90 oz pumpkin puree last 10 mins of boil
9 tablespoons pumpkin spice last 10 mins of boil

I haven't taken a taste yet, but will try to get to that tonight or tomorrow and post back. Also, when I racked my 5 gallons into the secondary last week, I lost about 1/2 - 1 gallon from the pumpkin puree. So just a heads up if you're trying to get a full 15 gallons for bottling/kegging. You'll probably lose 2-3 gallons just from the puree for a 15 g batch. What yeast are you thinking of using?

 

[FredTheNuke]

I would really appreciate your feedback on the pumpkin spice amount. Most other recipes say 1.5 tablespoons per 5 gallons. This one is saying it can handle twice that and taste good. I have tasted pumpkin pie when the spice was measured incorrectly (wow it is nasty). LOL. No offense to the OP - he has already stated that 3 tbsp per 5 gallons is good - just looking for one more thumbs up before Sunday Brew Day.

I am using the White Labs WLP300 Hefeweizen yeast. If I had more time (just committed to brewing this yesterday) I would innoculate each 5 gallon ferementer with something different for comparison. If the brew turns out really good when I test it in late October I will brew another then with 3 different yeasts (maybe 1056 and 2 other special ones). Good call on the 2-3 gallon loss. Need to up my recipe's base malt somemore to compensate (wheat will stay 10 lbs as that is all I bought). I will target 18 gallons of brew to ensure the kegs are FULL. This will also lower my hops from 19 IBU down a bit closer to the suggested 12 IBU.

I am also going to skip a secondary - 2 weeks in primary to FG of around 1.010 then keg. force carbonate at 36F 10psi for a week and then serve. It will be cloudy but it is a wheat ale.

 

[rorymcg]

I would really appreciate your feedback on the pumpkin spice amount. Most other recipes say 1.5 tablespoons per 5 gallons. This one is saying it can handle twice that and taste good. I have tasted pumpkin pie when the spice was measured incorrectly (wow it is nasty). LOL. No offense to the OP - he has already stated that 3 tbsp per 5 gallons is good - just looking for one more thumbs up before Sunday Brew Day. I am using the White Labs WLP300 Hefeweizen yeast. If I had more time (just committed to brewing this yesterday) I would innoculate each 5 gallon ferementer with something different for comparison. If the brew turns out really good when I test it in late October I will brew another then with 3 different yeasts (maybe 1056 and 2 other special ones). Good call on the 2-3 gallon loss. Need to up my recipe's base malt somemore to compensate (wheat will stay 10 lbs as that is all I bought). I will target 18 gallons of brew to ensure the kegs are FULL. This will also lower my hops from 19 IBU down a bit closer to the suggested 12 IBU. I am also going to skip a secondary - 2 weeks in primary to FG of around 1.010 then keg. force carbonate at 36F 10psi for a week and then serve. It will be cloudy but it is a wheat ale.

So I tasted it today with a few different people. There is a hint of the pumpkin spice but it is relatively mild, definitely not overpowering. Perhaps when I racked to the secondary the spice was taken out with the purée? Not sure why there isn't more spice presence. So I think 3 tbsp for 5 gallons is fine. Could maybe even go another tbsp of spice.

I haven't gotten into kegging yet, but looking at the keggerator pictures on this site makes me want to get into it quickly! Good luck with the brewing.

 

[FredTheNuke]

Yum! Sparging.

 

[rorymcg]

This beer is just over two weeks in the bottles, so I put one in the fridge last night to try it out. The carbonation was great and definitely has a nice color to it - the wheat clouds the beer as expected. However, there really isn't much pumpkin or spice Aroma from the beer. I picked up a bit of pumpkin/spice Flavor from the beer, but it is far from overpowering. Not sure where you would want to draw the line before it would be overpowered by the pumpkin/spice, but I think it could use some more puree and a tablespoon or two more of the spice.

My friend made a different batch of pumpkin (using pumpkin puree and spice). He said by the time he was ready to bottle, there was little to no flavor or aroma of pumpkin or spice. He added a little bit of spice while he was priming and you definitely get some aroma of the spice in the finished bottle. Perhaps this is the best technique to get the spice flavor to really pop. Interested in what others have tried/think...

 

[Black Island Brewer]

I've never tried making a pumpkin beer, but a couple of thoughts come to mind...

Could you get more pumpkin flavor by mashing your pumpkin puree, or by adding it to the secondary instead of at knockout? And what about simmering the spices in your priming sugar instead of boiling in the wort?

 

[FredTheNuke]

This stuff came our REALLY good! I'll have to post a pint picture - the color is excellent but not too dark. It fermented dry and crisp with no residual sweetness like the Mega Craft Beer commercial ones have. You could drink it 2 days in a row and not have to shun pumpkins for 3 months... Plenty of pumpkin taste and smell but not overpowering.

Cheers!

 

[rorymcg]

This stuff came our REALLY good! I'll have to post a pint picture - the color is excellent but not too dark. It fermented dry and crisp with no residual sweetness like the Mega Craft Beer commercial ones have. You could drink it 2 days in a row and not have to shun pumpkins for 3 months... Plenty of pumpkin taste and smell but not overpowering.

Cheers!

You used 3 tablespoons of pumpkin spice, correct? I did as well, but it's really not a strong flavor or aroma.

 

[FredTheNuke]

I used 1 29 oz cans of Libby's and 3 tablespoons of McCormick Pumpkin Pie Spice in the last 10 minutes of the boil per 5 gallon batch. I fermented at 75F for 3 weeks and then racked into cornelius kegs and force carbonated to 11psi at 36F. The first half a glass was yeast laden as was the last half a glass of each keg (I made a 15 gallon batch). I can taste and smell the pumpkin but when compared to commercial brands I could see where people would call it "weak" in aroma and taste. I did taste a Pumpkin Wheat that was "strong" at a local Oktoberfest - I had to pour it out as it was too strong.