Pull Through (dimpled) TC Ferrules for Soldering Prototype Stuff

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Bobby_M

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The 1/2" sized pull through solder fittings have been around for a while and I couldn't be happier with the ease of install for even the most novice DIY soldering garage warrior. Then I made the radius faced TC fittings that could also be soldered on the outside of kettles. No problem there either, but the fittings are bulky and expensive to make so I'm working on getting cheap ferrules installed in a classy way. This isn't a new idea by any means so I'm not taking credit for that.

Here's where I am so far.
20171219_174952.jpg
The key is in the tapered bullet mandrel and die along with a hardened drawing bolt. The trailing edge of the bullet is notched just enough to stay centered in the opening of the TC ferrule.

You'll make a hole in the vessel at 1.25" and this is what the mandrel looks like poking out of the hole:
20171219_175002.jpg
Then you put the die in place on the bolt and tighten everything up. Lubrication on the kettle and mandrel helps. After the bullets pops through, you're left with a flared opening.
20171219_175132.jpg
What I really didn't know at this point was if it were possible to pull the TC ferrule into that hole from the outside in because the flared opening does spring back to the point where the ID is nearly 1-3/8" instead of 1-1/2". I mean, it's obvious that you can pull it in from the larger side of the flare and that would be fine if you don't mind the soldered area being visible on the outside of the pot, but it will look better this way.

I reloaded the bullet mandrel onto pulling bolt but this time I put a TC ferrule behind it and used a drilled TC cap as a backing behind the bolt head. The cup die is then moved to the inside of the pot.

The bullet stretched the opening back up again just enough for the ferrule to pop in. I'd imagine easing the outside leading edge of the ferrule with sandpaper would make it a little easier. You also don't want the inside of that drilled hole to be sharp and burred at all or this may not work.

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It looks pretty sweet to me.
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Look at that fit and finish. A touch of solder in that valley and Bob's yer uncle.

I need to do some more testing on thicker-walled vessels to see if it's just as easy. The coolest thing is that I can't even budge the fitting by hand and it almost holds water without soldering (slow drip). The fit can't get any better than that. I have to work on sourcing the die part at a reasonable cost and then I'll have the tool ready to go. It uses the same bolt, nut and washers as the existing pull through tool.
 
-Hank Hill- Damn it! Bobby!

Those are awesome! Still a prototype but what do you think they will price out at?
 
In particular it is nice that this approach uses a 1.25" hole size which is right in range for the harbor freight step bit.
 
That looks pretty damn awesome. Let me know when you want to try it out on this kettle I have here that happens to need a pair of TC fittings added to it... ;)
 
Sounds awesome. When will you be putting them up for sale?
I was planning on buying some of the flat faced solder flanges but might go this route for my upcoming project.
 
Sounds awesome. When will you be putting them up for sale?
I was planning on buying some of the flat faced solder flanges but might go this route for my upcoming project.

@Bobby_M Ditto this. Was about to buy the flange but may hold off for a pull through if it will only take a few weeks. May go ahead with the flange if you’re thinking months. Any thoughts on timing?
 
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I have about 15 of the tapered bullets on hand but only one of the cupped fittings. I have to find if the vendor still has that same version. I think it will be weeks not months.

I did have a mishap on my fourth attempt. This was the second use on an actual pot and this one was a medium thickness, brushed finish. I smoothed the burrs but I think tapering the inside of the hole is key. I use a tungsten carbide hole saw and then use a 1-3/8 "large" step bit to deburr inside. In the previous successful attempts, I put a more specific taper on the hole. This time, as I pulled the ferrule in, the bottom got hung up on the edge of the flare and started deforming it inward. I removed the ferrule, pounded out the pot and ultimately made it happen but the fit was not as good as the previous three.

I need to practice a lot and learn how to advise people not to screw up too bad. One thing is for sure, you don't want to make the initial hole with a greenlee punch. You will crack the pot when flaring.
 
That makes sense, I'd think the shearing force of the punch would work-harden the edge of the hole. Likewise you probably don't want to get the metal too hot when cutting, and deburring would be really, really important given the size of the dimple. Would making the initial hole slightly larger make things a bit easier? The dimple wouldn't be as prominent but I don't think there'd be too much strength lost.
 
I was playing around with pulling inward instead of outward so that the flare and insertion can happen in one step. It's not only for speed of getting the job done but also reducing the risk of catching the edge on the flare out, pull in process.

My honest opinion is that it doesn't look as good but it's equally functional.

20180104_173846.jpg

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It may have come out a little cleaner if the edge of the ferrule was perfectly lined up with the flare lip but that's tricky to do because it's happening out of sight. It could have been tapped flush I suppose but I was anxious to see what the solder would look like.

I spec'd out the newer taper mandrel a 1/2 millimeter larger in diameter to make reinsertion a little easier.
 
Honestly, if the ferrule was tapped flush that looks 100% fine to me. Being able to do it in one step definitely reduces any risks of things going wrong, as well. Looks great, sign me up.
 
I should have the parts available by mid feb.

Be sure to let us know here when you get these in, I am sure they are going to be popular and I just want to make sure I get mine.:)

Also do you know if you will have the pull through tool for the 1/2" stuff in stock by then too?
 
Interesting. Glad I haven't placed my order yet... Looks like a great option, looking forward to the sale dates being posted soon as I will also want to jump on this quickly.
 
One thing is for sure, you don't want to make the initial hole with a greenlee punch. You will crack the pot when flaring.

Why would a greenlee punch increase the chance of cracking the pot while flaring? Is a hole-saw better because it hardens the material? This is the first time I've ever heard someone saying to not using a greenlee punch to create a hole that will be flared.
 
I'm no metallurgist but if I had to make an educated guess. The shearing of the metal leaves inclusions around the edges that tear when flared. Using a bit tool will leave a more rounded edge a lot less likely to leave inclusions in the steel. In this application, it's the size of the hole that cause the cracking issue. The bigger the hole the more them metal has to stretch and thin out during the flaring process.
 
I would never presume to argue with Bobby M, but I don't think the work hardening is due to Greenlee punch. In order to get from flat sheet stock to kettle shape, that metal has been put through hell. If the metal cracks when cut by a sharp punch, I believe it is due to previous work hardening in the forming process. Also, it seems to me that small cracks wouldn't neccesarily be fatal, since the joint will be soldered anyway. Just my thoughts on the subject, for what it's worth.
 
I would never presume to argue with Bobby M, but I don't think the work hardening is due to Greenlee punch. In order to get from flat sheet stock to kettle shape, that metal has been put through hell. If the metal cracks when cut by a sharp punch, I believe it is due to previous work hardening in the forming process. Also, it seems to me that small cracks wouldn't neccesarily be fatal, since the joint will be soldered anyway. Just my thoughts on the subject, for what it's worth.

I've done at least a dozen, if not more, installations of tri-clamp ferrules using both a greenlee punch and a step drill. Some have gone well, and a few have developed very small cracks when dimpling. None have been a problem when silver soldering.

Just my $0.02
 
Well, all I can tell you is that I've gotten at least a dozen reports of the flaring ripping the hole open like a 13lb newborn when the hole was punched. It happened to me twice. I've also installed no less than 200 flared fittings using a step bit or tungsen hole cutter bit with no ripping.
 
Well, all I can tell you is that I've gotten at least a dozen reports of the flaring ripping the hole open like a 13lb newborn when the hole was punched. It happened to me twice. I've also installed no less than 200 flared fittings using a step bit or tungsen hole cutter bit with no ripping.
That's why I won't presume to argue with you, Bobby. Between you and your customers, you probably know more about this than anybody else on the planet. I'd just like to know the actual cause of the difference.
 
Any chance you can show the level 9 version as well? I know it’s not recommended but I want to use the method to make bottom drain pots and would not wish to create additional dead space by flairing inwards.
 
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