Protecting bag from melting

[Black Island Brewer]

So I'm teaching a homebrewing class in the fall, and rather than starting with extract and steeping, I'm starting with BIAB - the initial investment is similar if doing a full-volume boil with extract, the process is not that far off from steeping, and although I've brewed 3-vessel for 15+ years and am happy with what I'm making, I want to be able to demo a simple way to get started with AG and let the students decide what route to go. I've bought a Winco 10G aluminum pot & lid,have reflectix to make some insulation, and bags and a pulley from Wilserbrew, and have a burner and a ladder (for hoisting), but I'm unsure about protecting the bag. For dough-in there is no problem - put in the bag AFTER I'm at dough-in temp. But for mash-out, I want to make sure I don't melt the bag. I've read that heating and stirring should be enough with the thick aluminum bottom, but...

Any suggestions on a false bottom or other ways of making sure no melty goodness happens?

 

[WayFrae]

I do no sparge BIAB so I don't even do a mash out. Lift the bag, squeeze the bajeezus out of the bag and bring to a boil. I consistently hit about 75% efficiency with this method.

I have that exact same pot. I really like it. I don't have any insulation for it yet so about halfway through the mash I usually fire the burner. When reheating the mash about I just light the burner and stir vigorously and I haven't melted my bag yet. Sometimes I just raise the bag for a few minutes and then drop it back in and stir. It seems to work. Now that I got a wilserbrewer bag I will probably be more careful and raise the bag every time.

 

[RM-MN]

So I'm teaching a homebrewing class in the fall, and rather than starting with extract and steeping, I'm starting with BIAB - the initial investment is similar if doing a full-volume boil with extract, the process is not that far off from steeping, and although I've brewed 3-vessel for 15+ years and am happy with what I'm making, I want to be able to demo a simple way to get started with AG and let the students decide what route to go. I've bought a Winco 10G aluminum pot & lid,have reflectix to make some insulation, and bags and a pulley from Wilserbrew, and have a burner and a ladder (for hoisting), but I'm unsure about protecting the bag. For dough-in there is no problem - put in the bag AFTER I'm at dough-in temp. But for mash-out, I want to make sure I don't melt the bag. I've read that heating and stirring should be enough with the thick aluminum bottom, but...

Any suggestions on a false bottom or other ways of making sure no melty goodness happens?

Since you aren't fly sparging, you don't need to do a mash out. Problem solved.:rockin:

 

[doug293cz]

A false bottom will work, or if you can get a strainer basket that fits your kettle (and sits above the bottom of the pot) that will also work. As noted by previous posters, you don't need to mash out with BIAB. You may need to add heat if your mash temp drops too low, in which case the false bottom or basket will keep your bag safe (raising the bag will also work, but may be less convenient.)

Brew on

 

[MaxStout]

If you need to apply some heat to tweak mash temps, use that Wilserbrewer hoist to lift the bag an inch or two off the bottom, then lower it back down after you turn off the heat.

 

[strauseman55]

I put the rack from a pressure canner on the bottom of my brew pot.

 

[enkamania]

I use a fryer basket

 

[vNmd]

I've read that heating and stirring should be enough with the thick aluminum bottom, but...

Any suggestions on a false bottom or other ways of making sure no melty goodness happens?

I don't mash out any more, but I have done a few and didn't have any issues with melting the bag. I did stir constantly with no issues. The bag is still going strong.

 

[Zzyzx3]

I would agree that a false bottom might be a good idea to add an additional layer of protection from your bag and the burner. Or just hoisting the bag up when you direct fire and then bringing it down once the fire is off. Other than that, the reflectix is really great at keeping mash temperatures. Good luck

 

[Black Island Brewer]

Thanks for all of your great advice!
Obviously the mash-out isn't for sparging since this is a no-sparge. In reading on BIAB, mash-out is both to stop enzymatic activity and to reduce viscosity so that wort drains from the mash more easily. I could skip it, I know, but if I choose not to, I want to protect the bag.
I really like the basket, and have seen that on videos, but that would require yet another purchase. Lifting the bag could work, but then I couldn't stir the mash as the temp rises. Unless I can think of another way, I'll either be taking the aluminum false bottom out of my pressure canner or just raising temp carefully and stirring.
Thanks again!

 

[hawktrio]

I raise temp carefully and stir with no false bottom. When teaching you will hopefully have plenty of volunteers for the stirring. It takes me around 20mins to go from mash temps to mash out temps. I BIAB too and do the mash out for the exact reasons you mention. Generally I'm in the 75%-80% efficiency range.

 

[lebucheron]

I don't do a mash-out, but I usually "fly sparge" with about a gallon of warm (sometimes even cold) water then add the rest of pre-boil water to the kettle. My efficiency is good... Am I missing something? Am I risking tannin extraction?
As for heating up the mash (I've maybe done this twice) I just lift the bag as I fire the burner.


Don't fake the funk on a nasty dunk!
- Bubs from homestarrunner.com

 

[MaxStout]

I don't do a mash-out, but I usually "fly sparge" with about a gallon of warm (sometimes even cold) water then add the rest of pre-boil water to the kettle. My efficiency is good... Am I missing something? Am I risking tannin extraction?
As for heating up the mash (I've maybe done this twice) I just lift the bag as I fire the burner.


Don't fake the funk on a nasty dunk!
- Bubs from homestarrunner.com

I've done a few "pour-over sparges" to wash a little more of the sugars out of that grain bag. Back when I only had a 10 gallon BK, it was sometimes necessary for me to hold back a couple gallons just to make the grain + water fit. I found it gave a few more percentage points, but now that I use a keggle, I don't do the sparge anymore. I just hoist out the bag and fire up the burner, allowing the bag to drip while the kettle is on its way to a boil. As for tannins, I wouldn't worry unless you heat the mash above 170 or so.

 

[Black Island Brewer]

Just wanted to thank all of you who contributed. I did my first BIAB today (with a few folks from my HB club over to see how it went). I didn't want to change my mill settings, so I kept it at .032, and double-milled. Lots of flour! The mash volume with the grain was 9 gallons in my 10 gallon pot, so maxed out, but after mashing and giving the bag a twist (I skipped the pulley for now) I got my pre-boil volume, and with a 14 pound grain bill, got 75% conversion/lautering efficiency. The same recipe with the same grain bill on my 3-vessel system came out with 10% higher conversion/lautering, even accounting for equipment losses. But BIAB definitely was faster, since I didn't have to recirculate and fly sparge. And WAY easier clean-up!!! It was pretty nice!

The answer I came up with for my concern about scorching was to go easy on the heat, and stir constantly. I saw BIABers talking about a paint stirrer, and I was sure it wasn't the drill operated kind, so when I looked into it found they were referencing a hand mixer that reminded me of a potato masher. I just went to Cash & Carry and got a 24" potato masher for 10 bucks.

Thanks again for all the help!

 

[pdxal]

Another option is to use a cheapo round baking rack on the bottom underneath your bag, then fish it out before boiling. Here's an example:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000HM9TGM/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[copper2hopper]

I have a 15 gallon keggle for doin my first BIAB next week. The bag I have (from brewinabag.com) will be clipped to the rim so that it allows enough space between the bottom of the keg and the bottom of the bag (approx 3-4 inches) so that I foresee no scorching should occur. With it being suspended like that (if I have explained a good enough mental picture for you all) does anybody see a potential issue with mashing in 14.38 pound grain bill? Do you think my clips be sufficient enough to hold it in place while mashing and stirring? . I also want to hit my preboil volume with no sparging any thoughts on how much initial strike water I should use with that amount of grain?
Here's the recipe iwill be using if that helps with providing any feedback.

 

[Black Island Brewer]

I have a 15 gallon keggle for doin my first BIAB next week. The bag I have (from brewinabag.com) will be clipped to the rim so that it allows enough space between the bottom of the keg and the bottom of the bag (approx 3-4 inches) so that I foresee no scorching should occur. With it being suspended like that (if I have explained a good enough mental picture for you all) does anybody see a potential issue with mashing in 14.38 pound grain bill? Do you think my clips be sufficient enough to hold it in place while mashing and stirring? View attachment 218691. I also want to hit my preboil volume with no sparging any thoughts on how much initial strike water I should use with that amount of grain?View attachment 218692
Here's the recipe iwill be using if that helps with providing any feedback.

Since the water will already be in the kettle when you add the grain, the weight on the bag will be minimal, but I'm not sure how it will hold up to stirring. Stir carefully and don't puch down on the bottom, I guess! But as far as volumes go, you're fine. I use BeerSmith to calculate my volumes, taking into account grain absorption and a 1 gallon per hour boil-off, I needed 8 gallons of water for 14 pounds of grain, which worked fine in my 10 gallon pot. Tight, but manageable.

 

[wilserbrewer]

The bag will be clipped to the rim so that it allows enough space between the bottom of the keg and the bottom of the bag (approx 3-4 inches) so that I foresee no scorching should occur. With it being suspended like that (if I have explained a good enough mental picture for you all) does anybody see a potential issue with mashing in 14.38 pound grain bill? Do you think my clips be sufficient enough to hold it in place while mashing and stirring? .

Just my opinion, but I don't care for this method, as there will be a large percentage of strike water outside the grain bag.

I prefer to have the bag line the entire kettle, and ideally not fire the burner with the bag in the pot but just insulate the kettle during the mash.

If you need to add heat, just heat gently and STIR with the bag in the pot.

Just my 2 cents.



Wilserbrewer
Http://biabbags.webs.com/