Process changes for better beer?

[Jbrew]

Hi all, so this post may get long winded, i do apologize.
Im still kind of a beginner, ive been brewing a little over 2 years, and have about 40 batches under my belt. My very first brew was a partial mash with full boil and then immediately went to BIAB all grain after that. I do extracts every now and then to make things easier at times, but the bulk of my brewing is all grain.
Ive made some good beer, like a carton boat clone, and i got kinda close to getting a sierra nevada hazy little thing ipa clone, not quite the same, but made a nice hazy ipa.
But ive had a fair amount of batches that were not so good. For the past year, my beers have been hit or miss and have a tang to them that I attribute to being a homebrew taste. I dont think ive had any infected batches, just poor practices with my process. Im trying to refine my process, but im not sure where to start. I have so many things that i think need to be changed, but Im not quite sure where to start, so im looking for advice on what should i be doing differently.

pH:
Ive never checked my mash pH before. Im going to start at least checking it, and planning to get a water report.

Aeration or oxygenation:
Looking into using an aquarium pump with a stone or going with a bernzomatic oxygen tank with stone. My current practice is to just shake it for a minute or so.

Carboys:
I have 1 6 gallon better bottle, 2 6 gallon vintage shop PET carboys, and a 7 gallon fermonster. I mainly use the fermonster for primary and the carboys for secondary. They all get cleaned by soaking with hot water and oxiclean, then rinsed. Sanitized with starsan before use. These are at least 2 to 3 year old carboys. Theyve never been scrubbed with wash cloths or carboy brushes. Always just left to soak. Im wondering if I should consider starting to replace them, just to eliminate risk of contamination.

Fermentation temps:
My temps aren't controlled at all. Im thinking this a big one that i should be trying to fix. I do have a spare mini fridge, just havent converted to a temp controller yet. This is pretty high up on my list though soon as it shouldnt take to much to do.

Yeast:
I mainly use dry yeast for ease of use and i dont have equipment to make a starter yet. The few times that i have used liquid, i pitched right into the fermenter. All my beers that have gotten liquid yeast were about 1.040 OG.

Cleaning:
Everything gets cleaned in oxiclean, then rinsed several times. The kettle is the only thing that gets scrubbed, everything else, which is pretty much all plastic just gets cleaned through a long hot soak, no scrubbing.
Should i be cleaning differently?

Sanitation:
I make a 5 fallon bucket of starsan and store it in the bucket. I change it maybe every 6 brews. Ive never checked the pH of the solution either, i just chuck after so much use. Is leaving starsan in a bucket for months to use and reuse again an ok practice? I know checking the pH is the only real way to check its effectiveness, but how long does this stuff generally last? Either way i will start checking the pH of my starsan.

I appreciate any advice. Thank you all

 

[kh54s10]

My suggestions in red:

Hi all, so this post may get long winded, i do apologize.
Im still kind of a beginner, ive been brewing a little over 2 years, and have about 40 batches under my belt. My very first brew was a partial mash with full boil and then immediately went to BIAB all grain after that. I do extracts every now and then to make things easier at times, but the bulk of my brewing is all grain.
Ive made some good beer, like a carton boat clone, and i got kinda close to getting a sierra nevada hazy little thing ipa clone, not quite the same, but made a nice hazy ipa.
But ive had a fair amount of batches that were not so good. For the past year, my beers have been hit or miss and have a tang to them that I attribute to being a homebrew taste. I dont think ive had any infected batches, just poor practices with my process. Im trying to refine my process, but im not sure where to start. I have so many things that i think need to be changed, but Im not quite sure where to start, so im looking for advice on what should i be doing differently.

If you are doing all grain, you should not be getting "homebrew twang". That is more of an extract thing.

pH:
Ive never checked my mash pH before. Im going to start at least checking it, and planning to get a water report.

I have yet to take a pH reading in 7 1/2 years. IMO, the hype there is overblown. It should make good beer better, though. Water could be a problem. I have been fortunate that the local tap water in RI, was excellent. Here in Florida, I have yet to decide if I need something different. I did a batch with distilled and additions and it was no better than the filtered tap water.

Aeration or oxygenation:
Looking into using an aquarium pump with a stone or going with a bernzomatic oxygen tank with stone. My current practice is to just shake it for a minute or so.

I would aerate more, but it is often said that dry yeast does not require it.

Carboys:
I have 1 6 gallon better bottle, 2 6 gallon vintage shop PET carboys, and a 7 gallon fermonster. I mainly use the fermonster for primary and the carboys for secondary. They all get cleaned by soaking with hot water and oxiclean, then rinsed. Sanitized with starsan before use. These are at least 2 to 3 year old carboys. Theyve never been scrubbed with wash cloths or carboy brushes. Always just left to soak. Im wondering if I should consider starting to replace them, just to eliminate risk of contamination.

My Better Bottles and buckets are up to 7 1/2 years old. I have not retired any. I don't think this is a source of your problems unless you get something unique to one.

Fermentation temps:
My temps aren't controlled at all. Im thinking this a big one that i should be trying to fix. I do have a spare mini fridge, just havent converted to a temp controller yet. This is pretty high up on my list though soon as it shouldnt take to much to do.

This is your best bet for improvement. IMO, it is very important to ferment within the optimum range of the yeast being used.

Yeast:
I mainly use dry yeast for ease of use and i dont have equipment to make a starter yet. The few times that i have used liquid, i pitched right into the fermenter. All my beers that have gotten liquid yeast were about 1.040 OG.

If you are using mostly one type of yeast, pay attention to when you use something else. Is it better? If so maybe use different strains.

Cleaning:
Everything gets cleaned in oxiclean, then rinsed several times. The kettle is the only thing that gets scrubbed, everything else, which is pretty much all plastic just gets cleaned through a long hot soak, no scrubbing.
Should i be cleaning differently?

I don't see any problem with your cleaning. Basically the same as I do, though I put a cloth in my Better Bottles and swirl it around, then rinse well.

Sanitation:
I make a 5 fallon bucket of starsan and store it in the bucket. I change it maybe every 6 brews. Ive never checked the pH of the solution either, i just chuck after so much use. Is leaving starsan in a bucket for months to use and reuse again an ok practice? I know checking the pH is the only real way to check its effectiveness, but how long does this stuff generally last? Either way i will start checking the pH of my starsan.

I have a 5 gallon water bottle that I store my Starsan solution in. I had it going for about 6 years at one point, just topping up with a couple gallons when it got low. I have pH strips to check, but the pH never changes. I pour back any Starsan that is not really dirty. I have never had any problems.

I appreciate any advice. Thank you all

I would start with fermentation temperatures, then look at your water.

 

[TechFanMD]

My suggestion:

1. Stop moving it to a secondary unless you're going to be aging it for a long period (longer than 1 month or so). This is an unnecessary step that risks infection and oxidation.
2. Fermentation temperature. Get it under control. Putting the bucket in a tub with a few inches of water and a towel around it does wonders.....blow a fan on it if needed to get even more cooling. I do this for the first 3 days of ever brew now and consistently keep the liquid temp in the mid 60s.

The other things on your list a great - but lots of people make great beer without doing them.....but the temp and oxidation are a taste killer.

One thing you don't mention is cooling. How do you get the temperature down to pitch temp?

 

[OG-wan Kenobi]

tang to them that I attribute to being a homebrew taste - that's an extract brew thing good all grain beer will taste perfect


Aeration or oxygenation: - bernzomatic oxygen tank with stone. THIS YES


Fermentation temps - you want these steady without big swings temps will vary by strain of yeast


Yeast: most beers are fine with dry yeast I use a lot of US-05 myself


Cleaning: Sounds good as long as your not leaving gunk behind


Sanitation: this is the most important part of brewing I use a fresh 5 gallon bucket of star san every brew day (or BTF IODOPHOR) the stuff is cheap it's not worth the risk to me of reusing it although I know many people do

 

[kh54s10]

Sanitation: this is the most important part of brewing I use a fresh 5 gallon bucket of star san every brew day (or BTF IODOPHOR) the stuff is cheap it's not worth the risk to me of reusing it although I know many people do

Dang! You are using 5 gallons of Starsan a brew day??? One ounce per brew day?? Try mixing up a gallon or less and put it in a spray bottle. My first 16 ounce bottle lasted 7 years!! 100 batches. You are getting only 16??

 

[OG-wan Kenobi]

Dang! You are using 5 gallons of Starsan a brew day??? One ounce per brew day?? Try mixing up a gallon or less and put it in a spray bottle. My first 16 ounce bottle lasted 7 years!! 100 batches. You are getting only 16??

1 OZ per 5 gallons of water is what I use, $21.99 for a 32oz (20% discount from NB makes it even cheaper) bottle the stuff is cheap so yea I go fresh every brew day why not. Yes I also have a spray bottle with Star San

 

[VVbrewery]

Dang! You are using 5 gallons of Starsan a brew day??? One ounce per brew day?? Try mixing up a gallon or less and put it in a spray bottle. My first 16 ounce bottle lasted 7 years!! 100 batches. You are getting only 16??

I have a 1 gallon water jug that I mix up Starsan in and it lasts for several brews. Some goes in a spray bottle and the stuff that gets used to sanitize the fermenter and smaller things gets returned for reuse. 10+ years of brewing and I'm half way through my second bottle of Starsan.

 

[Smellyglove]

What exactly is "homebrew taste"? I love a good homebrew, as it tastes most often great

To me "homebrew taste" when I sample other peoples beer is most often:
1: Poor fermentation temperature control
2: Oxidation
3: pH above the recommended "ballpark"
4: The taste of bottle carbonation with table sugar (sukrose).

 

[kh54s10]

My first bottle lasted 103 batches over 71/2 years. It was 16 ounces. My new, unopened bottle is 32 ounces. I expect I am in supply until 2033.

 

[probablynotnick]

... so im looking for advice on what should i be doing differently.
l

Getting back to your question:
The biggest change I noticed in my brewing was after fermentation control. I have a mini fridge with a temp controller on it, and it has really helped control the big temp swings and keep my yeast happy and consistent. Since you've already got a spare fridge, give that a go. It'll be a fun project, and also allow you to cold crash easily (use an S shaped air lock or you might suck the starsan into your fermenter).

You can skip secondary on practically every beer as long as you don't leave it in primary forever. If you are taking gravity measurements and pull the beer when it's stable, you'll be fine. I even "lager" in my kegs so that I only transfer once post fermentation. The goal here is to minimize oxygen exposure post fermentation as much as possible.

There are plenty of great dry yeasts out there, but I would also recommend trying Imperial Yeast as they come in larger pitches (~200bil) so a starter isn't as necessary. They are local to me (Portland, Oregon) so I can get pitches from them that are often 2 weeks or less in the package.

FWIW I have a can of oxygen and a stone, but hardly use it except for bigger beers. I don't notice a difference from the good ol' "shake and splash" method for average gravity beers. It makes more of a difference if you are trying to reuse yeast like a commercial brewery.

Playing with water salts has also helped my beer, but not as drastically as using healthy yeast, ferm control, and low oxygen exposure post fermentation. If you are using municipal tap water, start by just adding a 1/2 tablet of Campden which will help remove Chlorine and Chloramine. You can also play with the Chloride/Sulfate ratio as flavor additions without diving face first into pH, but it does quickly go that route.

MOSTLY: Keep brewing, pay attention, and RDWHAHB

 

[agrazela]

Looks like you're on it with sanitation.

As many have said, fermentation temperature control is your next big step. With that, you'll go from "hit or miss" to "hit or extra-base hit."

FWIW, I don't believe in "extract twang." I call it "poor practices twang" or "beginner's twang"--and it gets blamed on extract because that's what most people start with.

 

[Jbrew]

Thank you all for the responses.

I do mostly all grain recipes, and i still seem to get a weird tang. Its not bad, most people don't seem to notice, but i do. It just doesnt have the normal beer taste. I think the best example of this is the past few times i brewed schlenkerlas miller lite clone using all cascade and it just had this tangy taste. Again not bad and i dont think it was infected, just something was off.

I rarely bottle, when i do i use carb drops, and the beer always taste different then the kegged beer. Usually the kegged beer taste better, the bottled beer taste kinda bland, like some of the flavor and aroma had been scrubbed off and i think the carb drops overcarb a bit. I usually keg and force carb, so no carbonating with sugar.

As for oxidation im not really sure what it tastes like. Ive heard people say it tastes like cardboard. This is gonna sound really dumb, but does it really taste like cardboard? If i were to take a small piece of cardboard and chew on it, would it give me some idea?
And if it were oxidation, how would I stop it? My fermenter air lock always stays filled with starsan solution. When kegging, i put some oxiclean in my keg, run it under co2 through the tap of my kegerator until its empty and then repeat with a rinse and then with starsan solution so my keg should be purged with co2 i think.

It sounds like a majority of you guys are also making starsan solution and using it for a while before dumping and making a fresh batch of starsan. Ill probably dump the solution i have now, and toss the bucket and get a new bucket just to play it safe as its been holding starsan for a couple years now since brewing, but its good to hear others are constantly reusing there starsan the same way.

As for Yeast, I've been asking my lhbs to get imperial yeast in stock, but they wont. They said they already stock 4 different brands of yeast and its tough to keep them all fresh. Theyre not to interested in worrying about a 5th brand of yeasts freshness. I use us05 a lot, but have been starting to make more beers calling for s04 yeast. Most of the time, with pitching directly into the fermenter I get activity in about 18 hours. Currently i have a vanilla porter that i fermented with s04. I moved it to secondary to add vanilla beans to it and brewed the holiday cheer recipe and racked it right onto the s04 yeast cake from the porter and had activity within a couple hours. Well see how that turns out.

As for ferm temp control, putting a temp controller on it is now on the top of my list for changes.

 

[AF1HomeBrew]

I've been brewing for 10 years now (all-grain), and over that time had a few hits and misses. The things that helped improve my beer making was using RO water, temp control on fermentation and reading books like Gordon Strong's "Modern Homebrew Recipes" and "Brewing Better Beer" and reading alot of HBT postings.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

- fermentation control. I started out with a chest freezer/ferm chamber because all my research before I started told me it was the most important thing.
- use campden tablets. You mentioned you wanted to get a water report, so I'm guessing you're using tap water. It likely has chloramines, so if you're not eliminating that somehow it likely could be your off-taste.
- checking your mash ph isn't incredibly difficult. Depending on your water profile your ph could be too high and you might benefit from adding a little acid but you won't know unless you check the ph.
- liquid yeast. I don't think this is your issue as dry yeast works fine, but if you wanted to try liquid you don't need equipment. Stir plates help but all you really need is a flask and the ability to shake it.
- reusing your Starsan is fine. The ph is supposed to be below 3, so if you start testing mash ph you can easily check your Starsan. I have a bucket I've probably used on 4-5 brews in a row now.
- I can't speak to aeration and whether better methods make noticeable improvements, I just shake my carboys. Down the road I might try to do more.

I'm by no means an expert or exceptional brewer but I think most of my batches have turned out decent to good, and those are my comments on your process. #1 and #2 I think you should address as soon as possible.