Problems with Sparging- using a 20 gl Stout Tank

[geer537]

I've been brewing for a number of years now and recently upgraded to a 20 gl stout tank system. I've used the system 3 times and my Sparge seems to be inefficient. Hoping for some ideas on how to fix it or a suggestion from other Stout tank users. Here are links to the mash tun and sparge arm I am using:

https://conical-fermenter.com/20-Ga...-Recirculating-Fitting-and-Bottom-Outlet.html

https://conical-fermenter.com/Sparge-Arm-10.html

Here's my process:

Mash for 60 minutes
Hook up a 90 degree elbow and recirculate for 15 minutes
Hook up the Sparge arm and rinse the grains with 170 degree water
I try to do this as slow as possible but I do not get the rain effect unless it is fully open- it just kind of drizzles over the top. Sparging on this system went way too fast the first time- about 30 minutes for a 15 gallon batch. I have slowed it down to 45 minutes but I feel that is still too fast. At my preboil, my gravity is low and there is still plenty of sugars left in my mash tun. In essence, I'll continue to sparge into a bucket until my runoff gravity reads between 1.015 and 1.020 on my refractometer. Then I'll boil, adding the extra runoff as volume permits until I have my preboil volume. I've successfully hit my numbers this way but it takes an awful lot more sparge water and propane to boil off and make room in the kettle. Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can improve the efficiency of my sparge-

maybe turn on the sparge arm full bore then when the tanks full of water slowly drain? I wouldn't keep the constant 1/4 of water above the grain bed this way. Anyone have this system and can advise?

Thanks in advance and sorry for the lengthy post.

Steve

 

[Yooper]

I am not familiar with that system at all, so I'm not much help I'm afraid. It does sound like you're sparging fast- can you not slow that down?

 

[Jaybird]

I too dont have this system but let me ask you a few questions


1 what is the efficiency of your system as is and how did you come up with that number?
2 Are you leaving a good 2-3" cap on the grain bed throughout the sparging process?
3 How is your grain crush?
4 what is the actual diameter of your false bottom?
5 what is your water PH?
6 are you using enzymes?
7 what is your start mash temp and your final mash temp?
8 are you doing an iodine test for conversion?

Just a few that may help us figure out If you have a system problem or a process problem and maybe how to fix it. Or help anyway..

Cheers
Jay

 

[geer537]

Here we go:

Efficiency- still trying to figure it out. It's only my third brew. I was hitting 80 % on my old system but admittedly I was using using Beer Alchemy to let me know that. I should work out the formula myself but will have to refresh on it since I've been relying on the computer...

For this last recipe I used my LHBS' recipe- 15 lbs 2 row, 15 lbs wheat, 1.5 lbs Honey Malt- Rice hulls were in there too in order to prevent a stuck Mash. I hit 1.055 for 15 gallons which IIRC is 75 %- but to hit those numbers, it was pretty crazy.

I was leaving 1/4" above the grain bed so that could be part of the problem.

Grain Crush is pretty good. I use the LHBS' mill. They used to have a mill that was not very good but purchased a new one and fixed the issue. I hit 80% on the rew with the same mill just before the first brew on this system. Couldn't tell you where he has the gap set.

I'd have to measure the false bottom but it fits the entire bottom of the pot. There is no dead space though. The False Bottom is flat with no legs and the out is on the bottom of the pot.

I use a PH Stabilizer but not the recommended amount. I found it a bit salty when I used the recommended amount; instead I add 1 tablespoon at a time (Recommended for 5 gl) and check with PH Strips until I get a solid reading of 5.2 in the mash. I tend to add the same amount to the Sparge water; i.e. if I add 1 tablespoon for 10 gl and I have 9 gl of Sparge water- I'll add almost a full tablespoon.

No Enzymes

Start Mash on this one was 151, Final was 149

No Iodine test for conversion.

Thanks for checking this out! Any help is greatly appreciated.

Yooper- I am really trying to slow it down. Next time I will try keeping 3 inches above and really slowing it down unless I get solid advice to try something else. I was hoping I could set the system up and walk away for a bit instead of standing at the pump handles for an hour and a half adjust the speed of the sparge water.

Steve

 

[BadWolfBrewing]

I have the same equipment, minus their sparge arm. I use a LocLine arm on a tri clamp to npt adapter. Keeps a nice gently rotating layer of sparge water on top of the grain bed, regardless of how fast I sparge. Low 90s efficiency lately, though in trying to reduce it some.

 

[Jaybird]

Here we go:

Efficiency- still trying to figure it out. It's only my third brew. I was hitting 80 % on my old system but admittedly I was using using Beer Alchemy to let me know that. I should work out the formula myself but will have to refresh on it since I've been relying on the computer...

For this last recipe I used my LHBS' recipe- 15 lbs 2 row, 15 lbs wheat, 1.5 lbs Honey Malt- Rice hulls were in there too in order to prevent a stuck Mash. I hit 1.055 for 15 gallons which IIRC is 75 %- but to hit those numbers, it was pretty crazy.

I was leaving 1/4" above the grain bed so that could be part of the problem.

Grain Crush is pretty good. I use the LHBS' mill. They used to have a mill that was not very good but purchased a new one and fixed the issue. I hit 80% on the rew with the same mill just before the first brew on this system. Couldn't tell you where he has the gap set.

I'd have to measure the false bottom but it fits the entire bottom of the pot. There is no dead space though. The False Bottom is flat with no legs and the out is on the bottom of the pot.

I use a PH Stabilizer but not the recommended amount. I found it a bit salty when I used the recommended amount; instead I add 1 tablespoon at a time (Recommended for 5 gl) and check with PH Strips until I get a solid reading of 5.2 in the mash. I tend to add the same amount to the Sparge water; i.e. if I add 1 tablespoon for 10 gl and I have 9 gl of Sparge water- I'll add almost a full tablespoon.

No Enzymes

Start Mash on this one was 151, Final was 149

No Iodine test for conversion.

Thanks for checking this out! Any help is greatly appreciated.

Yooper- I am really trying to slow it down. Next time I will try keeping 3 inches above and really slowing it down unless I get solid advice to try something else. I was hoping I could set the system up and walk away for a bit instead of standing at the pump handles for an hour and a half adjust the speed of the sparge water.

Steve

Steve

I would do a couple of things if I was trying to figure this out.

Use brewers friend and create a grain bill make sure your set on about 75% efficiency when you create the Bill

Have your LHBS double crush your grain just as a place to start. We dont like to do this but are very willing if were chasing a problem.
make sure you use rice hulls and keep the grain bill stupid simple that is easy to calculate.

Keep a good 2-3" of water on top of the grain bed as you sparge

Do the math on the sparge timing for your collection and shoot for a good solid 60-70 min
If you need to collect 20 gallons over 60 min = 20(gallons)x4(Qts)=80 (qts) / 60 (min) = 1.33 Qts per min. Then run at that rate and your good.

Make sure you are never stopping the flow of Wort once you set your speed. You can change it a little but never, never stop it

Dont worry about the drizziling water on the grain bed You will have 2-3" of water on top of your mash to take the blow.

Cut your grain bed at least 1x through out the sparge. dig in there about a quarter into the bed and move the top around a little I just cut the top a little with my Ultimate mash paddle. dont worry about disturbing the bed. Your not going to harm it at all.

Measure your wort in the fermenter make sure your volume is correct going in being off just 1 gallon will throw off your numbers.


Give those a shot.

Cheers
Jay

 

[geer537]

On it- buuuuut it will take a bit of time. I have about 35 gallons of beer to get through before I can start trouble shooting again... I am sure I can find help- it's still tasty beer. I fix efficiency issues with LME if I have to. I hate doing that. Double crush should be easy enough- my buddy owns the shop and he's all in for helping fix efficiency issues. I'll report back on how it turns out. Thanks for the help!

 

[NoH20]

How do you like your system? I've been waiting about 3 weeks to order the 9-12 gallon system. Not sure why I'm waiting ;-).

Todd

 

[geer537]

I really like the HLT and tri clamps are awesome! Its much easier to clean than keggles. The mash tun is great- no dead space. I am on the fence with the sparge arm. It looks great and works well at full speed but it goes through the sparge water too fast. I might not be using it correctly quite yet.

I like the tangental inlet and domed bottom in theory but in practice I have yet to get a really good looking whirlpool and the domed bottom seems to hold quite a bit of wort back. I really need a filter like this https://www.brewershardware.com/FILTER1.html but thats more money. Overall I am happy and the quality is outstanding but I think I need to get past this learning curve before I am solidly for or against any of Stout's features.

Brewing again this weekend and will post back with how it goes

Steve

 

[geer537]

By the way- here are a few pics of the system on a temporary stand. Uploaded them from my phone so I hope they aren't huge. That was the first batch where I maxed out the mash tun.

 

[BadWolfBrewing]

I was asked for pics of my locline sparge arm. Here it is. Locline attached to a 90 elbow and an npt to tri clamp adapter. Works awesome.

 

[geer537]

Brewed an IPA this weekend. I only changed the sparge time by creating a 'grant' instead of using a pump. I sparged for about 75 minutes and kept a good 3 inches above the grain the whole time. I didn't double crush because I wanted to pinpoint the issue and figured if I took all advice at once I couldn't figure out what worked. I also forgot to cut the mash one time. I will next time. I got 67.4% efficiency. Here's the recipe:

27 lb 2 row
9 lb munich
3 lbs carapils

Hops
2.25 oz warrior @ 60
2 oz Amarillo @ 30
2 oz Amarillo @ 15
1 oz Simcoe @ 5
1 oz Amarillo @ 5
1 oz Citra in whirlpool @ 180 degrees for 15 minutes
1 oz of Simcoe in whirlpool @ 180 degrees for 15 minutes
Dry hop with 3 oz of Simcoe

S05 for the yeast and fermenting happily at 64 degrees. Og was 1.060. I'll try double crushing the next one. Here's a pick of the 'grant'



I'll let all know how double crushing works. Then we'll move on to the next thing.

Thanks all!

Steve

 

[homebrewdude76]

I known I am digging up an old thread, just wondering what you figured out with the sparge? I have the same mash tun, but I have Rims and batch sparge.