Primary with tiny headspace?

[GratefulBear]

Searched but couldn't find anything. I'm about to do my first extract kit (pilsner). I've learned with fermenting my cider in corny's that I can get away with almost no headspace if the temperature is on the low side. I'm wondering if I can do the same thing with beer. Ideally, I would only use one corny for my 5 gallon kit. I'm thinking I can use a little less water than what the recipe calls for because it's a low gravity beer and it might actually come out better if I do that. If I only had a quarter or half gallon of headspace, would that be enough if I keep the basement at the very low end of the fermentation temperature range? EDIT: I'm using a blowoff tube and don't mind if I lose a pint of beer to blowoff

 

[jrgtr42]

There's a lot of other variables that would come into play. |How much yeast you're pitching and it's health, the beer itself and so on.
Personally I would say to use something in the 6.5 - 7 gallon range for a primary. You don;'t have to worry about secondary for a kit like that - mainly that is something for bulk aging for a long time.
|If all you have is the smaller one, I would recommend setting off a blowoff tube - there's plenty of threads about those - instead of your airlock. |That'ss give any foam more area to come out rather than clogging the airlock - believe me, mopping a ceiling is no fun.

 

[GratefulBear]

There's a lot of other variables that would come into play. |How much yeast you're pitching and it's health, the beer itself and so on.
Personally I would say to use something in the 6.5 - 7 gallon range for a primary. You don;'t have to worry about secondary for a kit like that - mainly that is something for bulk aging for a long time.
|If all you have is the smaller one, I would recommend setting off a blowoff tube - there's plenty of threads about those - instead of your airlock. |That'ss give any foam more area to come out rather than clogging the airlock - believe me, mopping a ceiling is no fun.

Thanks, man. I use blowoff tubes in a half gallon of solution. I don't mind if I lose a pint or so if my guesstimations are off.. How much do you think I could end up losing with only a half gallon of headspace?

 

[jrgtr42]

Thanks, man. I use blowoff tubes in a half gallon of solution. I don't mind if I lose a pint or so if my guesstimations are off.. How much do you think I could end up losing with only a half gallon of headspace?

It's hard to say, since it's basically foam that's getting blown off, rather than the beer iself coming through. I'd think a pint would be a lot to get blown, but I haven't measured when I do get any - again, there's some variability involved, especially in the activiity. At low temps you may not even need it, but |I'd set one up to start anyway just to be on the safe side.

 

[GratefulBear]

It's hard to say, since it's basically foam that's getting blown off, rather than the beer iself coming through. I'd think a pint would be a lot to get blown, but I haven't measured when I do get any - again, there's some variability involved, especially in the activiity. At low temps you may not even need it, but |I'd set one up to start anyway just to be on the safe side.

Definitely. I guess there's only one way to find out Hopefully I will be able to fit it in today and get this batch going

 

[renstyle]

Searched but couldn't find anything. I'm about to do my first extract kit (pilsner). I've learned with fermenting my cider in corny's that I can get away with almost no headspace if the temperature is on the low side. I'm wondering if I can do the same thing with beer. Ideally, I would only use one corny for my 5 gallon kit. I'm thinking I can use a little less water than what the recipe calls for because it's a low gravity beer and it might actually come out better if I do that. If I only had a quarter or half gallon of headspace, would that be enough if I keep the basement at the very low end of the fermentation temperature range? EDIT: I'm using a blowoff tube and don't mind if I lose a pint of beer to blowoff

What is considered the "very low end" of the temp range you are working with?

Here's my totally anecdotal example:

I recently whipped up a BoPils that I fermented in a corny keg. 1042 OG, 1008 FG, so ~4.5% ABV.

I aerated with an O2 tank + diffusion stone, then added about 8 drops of FermCap, then pitched 2 packs of W34/70 dry yeast on top of approx 4.75gal/18L of wort, so the tank was pretty full.

Let it ferment out in my keezer set to 53F/12C for 3 weeks. Used a blow off into a 1/2 gal of vodka.

Now, I had reasonably stable temps (inkbird controller) the whole time, and did not have much blow off at all, perhaps 250-500mL total.

YMMV, but I ended up with about 4.25gal of Pilsner which was quite nice once things were all said and done.

 

[GratefulBear]

What is considered the "very low end" of the temp range you are working with?

Here's my totally anecdotal example:

I recently whipped up a BoPils that I fermented in a corny keg. 1042 OG, 1008 FG, so ~4.5% ABV.

I aerated with an O2 tank + diffusion stone, then added about 8 drops of FermCap, then pitched 2 packs of W34/70 dry yeast on top of approx 4.75gal/18L of wort, so the tank was pretty full.

Let it ferment out in my keezer set to 53F/12C for 3 weeks. Used a blow off into a 1/2 gal of vodka.

Now, I had reasonably stable temps (inkbird controller) the whole time, and did not have much blow off at all, perhaps 250-500mL total.

YMMV, but I ended up with about 4.25gal of Pilsner which was quite nice once things were all said and done.

Nice, thank you! What I meant by "very low end" is the lowest temp recommended on the yeast packet. However, I just looked at the yeast packet and it has a "temp range" and an "ideal temp range". First time I've seen two ranges. It's Safale US-05. The low is 53.6F and the ideal low is 59F. Maybe my best bet is to put it in my keezer which isn't currently being used and start at 54 and maybe let the temp rise as fermentation starts to slow down at the end? Maybe take it out to room temp at the end and ensure complete fermentation. Kind of another topic, but does a slow ferment have any benefit for beer (other than lagers)?

 

[renstyle]

Nice, thank you! What I meant by "very low end" is the lowest temp recommended on the yeast packet. However, I just looked at the yeast packet and it has a "temp range" and an "ideal temp range". First time I've seen two ranges. It's Safale US-05. The low is 53.6F and the ideal low is 59F. Maybe my best bet is to put it in my keezer which isn't currently being used and start at 54 and maybe let the temp rise as fermentation starts to slow down at the end? Maybe take it out to room temp at the end and ensure complete fermentation. Kind of another topic, but does a slow ferment have any benefit for beer (other than lagers)?

Low-temp fermentation with most yeasts, both with Ale and Lager strains will give a more neutral flavor profile and suppress the ester formation which lends to fruity flavors.

Lager yeast strains are more "dialed in" to fermenting at temps below 60F due to their historical use before the invention of mechanical refrigeration (long-term cold storage in caves, literally meaning "to lager"). It was the only way to make a lager-style beer back in the day.

The lower temps (generally) mean longer fermentation times, but this isn't a hard/fast rule. It's all about getting clean beer at the end of the process. The US-05 will work below 59F, it will just take a bit longer to reach your FG.

As you are working with a corny keg, which is a pressure vessel good up to well over 70PSI, you have the option to experiment with pressure fermentation.

With the addition of a spunding valve, you could ferment that lager with US-05 under pressure (say 5-10 PSI)at ale temps (64-68F), which would finish out much faster, and still have the neutral flavor and suppressed esters that cold fermentation would give.

I agree with your suggestion, if you have a temp-controlled chamber and are willing to wait for a cold ferm to finish out, I'd go that route also!

 

[jrgtr42]

I like to ferment in the 60 - 62 degrees range. It works fine for most ale yeast, and though it takes a bit longer than fermenting warmer, I seem to get better results. Obviously certain styles do better warmer; Hefeweizen, saison / tripel. I haven’t yet worked with kveik yeast yet.

 

[renstyle]

I like to ferment in the 60 - 62 degrees range. It works fine for most ale yeast, and though it takes a bit longer than fermenting warmer, I seem to get better results. Obviously certain styles do better warmer; Hefeweizen, saison / tripel. I haven’t yet worked with kveik yeast yet.

That temp range should be OK coupled with a good d-rest with a few points left to go. Cold crash if you can for a few days afterward to help clear things up. US-05 flocs out in the middle of the pack, so a crash should help.

Re: Kveik - had a friend use some Lutra in a batch of seltzer. Ripped thru fermentation in a glass carboy with a heat blanket wrapped around it, around 85F in less than 48 hours! Granted it was just corn sugar and lots of nutrients, but it cleared up amazingly well. I've heard others that were able to make a pretty good lager with a kveik strain at ale (or higher temps), not sure exactly which one they used tho.

 

[DuncB]

I've heard others that were able to make a pretty good lager with a kveik strain at ale (or higher temps), not sure exactly which one they used tho.

I've made an Asahi clone and a couple of czech pilsner with Opshaug kveik yeast, very clean ( was pressure fermented though ) thread on the forum about Lutra kveik yeast and brewers have had good results no pressure.

 

[DuncB]

Saflager 34/70 has good reports for warm lager ferment and I used that on my first lager but since have used Kveik.
I've just used WLP 1983 and that says dual purpose lager or ale in a baltic porter started at 13 celsius then up to 15 after a week and finished at 18 for 5 days.

Not tasted it yet but again another pressure ferment.

 

[Rippchen]

You could use the w34/70. I have seen very little krausen at 10°c. So half a gallon head space should be sufficient.

I am also fermenting in a corny keg, mostly under pressure, and leave roughly half a gallon head space ... Worked fine for me so far

 

[GratefulBear]

You could use the w34/70. I have seen very little krausen at 10°c. So half a gallon head space should be sufficient.

I am also fermenting in a corny keg, mostly under pressure, and leave roughly half a gallon head space ... Worked fine for me so far

Good to hear!