Power Regulators?

[Bill Black]

Hi all-
I've noticed that some 240v systems require an additional power regulator (both BrauSupply and Brewha have one:
https://brewhaequipment.com/product...VaOliiZtZV-euNDbRe1uloGG7ByT3FDMaArQFEALw_wcB

https://brausupply.com/collections/plumbing-accessories/products/240v-electric-brewery-controller

But this does not seem to be needed with other controllers, such as WortHog, BrewCommander, or Tower of Power.

Can someone explain to me why these power regulators are required for 240v in those two systems but not others?

I feel like someone wanting to buy a Unibrau (for instance), would be better served customizing it without their controller and then hooking it up to a different controller? (would save 300-400bucks?)

Thanks!

 

[augiedoggy]

So the "power regulator" is nothing more than a manual duty cycle to control the heat output while in boil mode. this is because if you set it to 212 in temp control mode or pid mode, the heat would turn on and off to maintain the 212 degrees but the boil would literally start and stop every time the element was turned on or off resulting in a strange inconsistent boil. Now if you set the pid or temp controller to a temp of say 215- the heat would just stay on at 100% even after the boil was reached and the result would usually be a very crazy hard boil with a lot of boil off. (this depends on both the amount of liquid your boiling and the wattage of your heating element.

Some controllers have the ability to set the max power output to the element no matter what (even when warming up to reach a temp the element would be pulsed on and off very quickly to prevent the full 5500w from powering a 5500w element for example. This is more or less a work around that only useful if an inferior HWD or LWD element is used to help prevent the possibility of scorching...(you also sacrifice your time waiting with this as the heating times are longer).

The tower of power, worthog and brewcommander do in fact all have the manual duty cycle (sometimes referred to as pwm) mode for controlling an even boil. some just market the features differently possibly to confuse or think you get something additional with their product.

the simplest form of manual power regulator that works well if you dont need specific temp control would be the stilldragon controller kit.
https://stilldragon.com/index.php/accessories/diy-controller-kit.html
along with components like cords and plugs from the home depot you can build a complete controller in under 2 hrs for about $80 total.

now if you are using a rims or herms sytem this is NOT the controller you want as it will not control temps well at all.

Hope this is helpful.

 

[Bill Black]

So the "power regulator" is nothing more than a manual duty cycle to control the heat output while in boil mode. this is because if you set it to 212 in temp control mode or pid mode, the heat would turn on and off to maintain the 212 degrees but the boil would literally start and stop every time the element was turned on or off resulting in a strange inconsistent boil. Now if you set the pid or temp controller to a temp of say 215- the heat would just stay on at 100% even after the boil was reached and the result would usually be a very crazy hard boil with a lot of boil off. (this depends on both the amount of liquid your boiling and the wattage of your heating element.

Some controllers have the ability to set the max power output to the element no matter what (even when warming up to reach a temp the element would be pulsed on and off very quickly to prevent the full 5500w from powering a 5500w element for example. This is more or less a work around that only useful if an inferior HWD or LWD element is used to help prevent the possibility of scorching...(you also sacrifice your time waiting with this as the heating times are longer).

The tower of power, worthog and brewcommander do in fact all have the manual duty cycle (sometimes referred to as pwm) mode for controlling an even boil. some just market the features differently possibly to confuse or think you get something additional with their product.

the simplest form of manual power regulator that works well if you dont need specific temp control would be the stilldragon controller kit.
https://stilldragon.com/index.php/accessories/diy-controller-kit.html
along with components like cords and plugs from the home depot you can build a complete controller in under 2 hrs for about $80 total.

now if you are using a rims or herms sytem this is NOT the controller you want as it will not control temps well at all.

Hope this is helpful.

Ok. So! Some controllers do have it built in - this is important for me, because I want the ability to step mash. Others probably use the same pid based controller for all their systems (my guess is with a 120v, 1600-2000W, excess power isnt a concern) but need the power control for 240v?

 

[augiedoggy]

Just about all controllers have it. I cant think of a single controller that doesnt honestly. even the inkbird pid controller has both.
Most pids have both manual (power regulator) duty cycle control for boil as well as auto temp control like you would use for step mashing. The same pid or ezboil controller is used for both 1220v or 240v.. its how the rest of the control box is wired that determines this.

any of the controllers you mentioned will do what you want if your plan is a direct head recirc biab setup.

 

[Bill Black]

Just about all controllers have it. I cant think of a single controller that doesnt honestly. even the inkbird pid controller has both.
Most pids have both manual (power regulator) duty cycle control for boil as well as auto temp control like you would use for step mashing. The same pid or ezboil controller is used for both 1220v or 240v.. its how the rest of the control box is wired that determines this.

any of the controllers you mentioned will do what you want if your plan is a direct head recirc biab setup.

Thanks augie. Guess I'm out of my league on this one then. If all of the controllers have it, then I dont understand why BrauSupply and Brewha have you purchasing a separate power controller when jumping from the 120 to 240v system. Per your post above, it seems redundant.

 

[Bobby_M]

It's just a matter of whether the brain (the square 1/16th DIN box) inside the controller has a manual mode (aka boil mode) built in or not. If you use a brain or PID that doesn't have manual pulse width built in, you can stack one inline. The worthog, at least the older one used a PID that was a simple on/off temp control unit while the intensity of heat was done with knob (controlling an SCR). So, when the set temp is higher than the actual temp, the unit "fires" but the power regulator knob is what dictates how much power is applied in that state. There's nothing wrong with this but it's more complicated than it needs to be. When you want that system to boil, you set the temp to like 220 and just use the knob.

On the Blichmann Commander, the touch screen on the home page (in auto mode) has temp target and power output so you can limit the power regardless of how much of a temp delta there is. This simulates the wort hog and Brewtech feature without having another piece of physical hardware.

Brausupply is a unique situation. They have their base 120v controller that cannot handle 30amps of current. Rather than make a whole new controller that can handle it, they have the 240v module that is temp driven by the other controller but does the heavy lifting of 30 amps. Bulky, somewhat redundant.... expensive. Another way to look at it is that you could have just bought the power regulator module thinking you didn't care about temp control but then you want to change that boil kettle to a eBIAB rig. You can add the temp control module onto the power regular. It's just a design decision they made.

The BrewCommander does the same thing in a single module for $375. No brainer.

 

[Bill Black]

Thanks to both of you! Bobby, I think you got down to the ultimate question for me, but not something that I wanted to ask out right (as answers to these kinds of questions are often met with a "it depends"). Greatly appreciated!