Possible stuck barley wine - suggestions?

[poley]

Hi all,

I have a barley wine that's stuck at 1.038

I racked it to a secondary well after the krausen had dropped (8 days), and I had pitched plenty of yeast (it blew off over a gallon in the first 36 hours of fermentation).

Its been in the secondary for almost 3 weeks, and the gravity hasn't dropped any since I put it in there, despite weekly rousing attempts.

Should I make a starter of a different yeast strain to finish it out? Add some nutrient? Make a starter of more of the same yeast?

(Initial gravity was 1.109)

Recipe:
Expected ABV: 10.5 %
Expected IBU (using Rager): 78.4
Boil Duration: 120.0 mins
Fermentation Temperature: 64 degF

Fermentables
UK Pale Ale Malt 19lb 0oz (83.3 %) In Mash/Steeped
German CaraMunich II 1lb 6oz (6.0 %) In Mash/Steeped
UK Rolled Oats 12.00 oz (3.3 %) In Mash/Steeped
German Munich Malt 8.00 oz (2.2 %) In Mash/Steeped
UK Chocolate Malt 2.00 oz (0.5 %) In Mash/Steeped
UK Roasted Barley 1.00 oz (0.3 %) In Mash/Steeped
Sugar - Turbinado 1lb 0oz (4.4 %) Start Of Boil

Hops
US Amarillo (8.0 % alpha) 1.00 oz Loose Pellet Hops used All Of Boil
US Centennial (8.5 % alpha) 1.00 oz Loose Pellet Hops used All Of Boil
US Amarillo (8.0 % alpha) 1.00 oz Loose Pellet Hops used 30 Min From End

Other Ingredients
Irish Moss 1.00 oz used In Boil

Yeast: Wyeast 1318-London Ale III - 3 vial equivalent

Schedule Name:Single Step Infusion (68C/154F)

 

[conpewter]

I wouldn't have racked a barleywine so soon, I left mine on the yeast for a month and it attenuated pretty well.

At this point I'd leave it in secondary, brew another beer and after you transfer that beer you should siphon the barleywine onto that fresh yeast cake, that will get things going again.

 

[poley]

That's an interesting suggestion.
I'm not sure if it changes your advice at all, but the primary reason I moved it was to get it into a carboy that I could put an airlock on, which happened to be a smaller carboy (original had a blow off tube in it).
I actually roused the yeast right before transfer, which caught most of the yeast along for the ride. There's over an inch thick yeast cake in the bottom right now, which is what I've been rousing. But I'm willing to concede that yeast may be about spent after working as far down as it has.
Any other thoughts? It tastes amazing by the way, just needs to attenuate another .01 and it'll be awesome.

 

[Revvy]

I agree with Con, it shouldn't have been racked before it was close if not totally done. By rushing it to secondary you moved it off all the "plenty of yeast" you pitched.

Did you just go by krausen fall or did you take a couple of hydro-readings to see if it had finished? Something big like a barleywine you don't want to rush.

I'd do what con said, brew another beer and move it onto the cake in a couple weeks.

 

[conpewter]

That's an interesting suggestion.
I'm not sure if it changes your advice at all, but the primary reason I moved it was to get it into a carboy that I could put an airlock on, which happened to be a smaller carboy (original had a blow off tube in it).
I actually roused the yeast right before transfer, which caught most of the yeast along for the ride. There's over an inch thick yeast cake in the bottom right now, which is what I've been rousing. But I'm willing to concede that yeast may be about spent after working as far down as it has.
Any other thoughts? It tastes amazing by the way, just needs to attenuate another .01 and it'll be awesome.

Ah gotchya, I was just suggesting putting in a healthier yeast cake since the one you have probably is pretty beat down by the long ferment and alcohol. I've read of several people transferring on a new cake to fix stuck fermentations and it seems to work great. I've not run into a stuck ferment yet (I pitch barleywines onto yeast cakes to start with) so I can't personally vouch for the technique.

 

[david_42]

Re-pitch with a higher alcohol-tolerance yeast. Even though London III can hit 10%, that's under ideal conditions. I like to use dry champagne yeast for drying big beers. It's slow, but a barleywine needs months of conditioning, so no problem.

 

[poley]

David: would you suggest just adding dry yeast to the carboy, or should I make a new starter and pitch it once it's active? Is the champagne yeast going to add a lot of different flavor to the beer? I really like the yeast character of the London III so far...

Thanks everyone for their input, it's great to have so many options to consider, and I'm sure I'll eventually try them all at some point in my hobby.

 

[Bobby_M]

You're pretty close though. At that OG, the best I'd hope for is 1.030.

 

[poley]

Bobby, You saying that I should let it ride for a while? Keep rousing? Or just get some fresh London III in there as I'm so close? I was hoping for something in the 1.022-1.028 for final gravity... I should have some fresh cakes in a couple weeks, I'm doing 2x5Gal batches of Porter this weekend with London III, and I'll have a starter I'll be pitching. I could save a couple ounces of yeast to pour into the BW carboy if that seems like a good idea...

 

[Saccharomyces]

Yeast cake of US-04 would work. It won't alter the flavor profile much, and will give you 5 gallons of something else to drink.

As david_42 says a champagne yeast (EC-1118 works great for this) will also work but it will take a couple of months. If you are patient, you can go that route because it's cheap 'n easy.

 

[Saccharomyces]

Posts crossed...

I should have some fresh cakes in a couple weeks, I'm doing 2x5Gal batches of Porter this weekend with London III, and I'll have a starter I'll be pitching. I could save a couple ounces of yeast to pour into the BW carboy if that seems like a good idea...

Just rack off the porter and rack the barleywine onto the cake. You want the WHOLE cake, since the ale yeast aren't going to multiply well in such a high alcohol environment.

 

[poley]

I'm planning on trying to have this beer ready in about 14 months, so time isn't really an issue, other than tying up a carboy. If you think S-04 will do a good job of finishing it off, I'll do one of my porters with S-04 this weekend (why not? it'll be a fun contrast anyway), and then rack the BW onto the cake when I'm done.

Not to diss the advice, but I've had a homebrew made with champagne yeast before, and I disliked the yeast character so much that I'm really nervous that it will negatively impact this batch, which has stellar flavor so far.

 

[poley]

Posts crossed....

OK. That sounds even more manageable. S-04 more tolerant than the London III, or very similar?

 

[conpewter]

04? I would have thought 05, especially since this is just cleaning up the tail end of the ferment. I've always thought of 04 finishing higher than 05.

 

[poley]

After a quick search, it looks like S-05 is definitely a higher-tolerant yeast, though S-04 may be closer to the London III. I think that the S-05 is a fairly neutral yeast, so it shouldn't really taint the current flavor.

I'm down to either pitching on a fresh yeast cake of London III, or pitching rehydrated S-05 into the carboy.

Any other advice?