Pondering a Parti-Gyle

[CKing]

Looking for advice on my 1st Parti-Gyle, here is some info on my equipment set up and what my thoughts are:

All grain with 5-gallon mash tun & 5-gallon hot liquor tank. I've held up to 13.5 lbs of grain in the mash tun.
I have a 10.5 gallon brew kettle and a smaller 4 gallon kettle.
Boil the normal sized batch on the propane burner, and the smaller batch on the kitchen stove top.
One batch would ferment in a 6.5 gallon carboy, the other in a 3 gallon carboy.

Not looking to do a huge gravity 1st beer (but I could if this is the best way), and I've been planning on an Oatmeal Stout as my next batch.
Any big and small beer combinations based on this would be helpful, or anything else typically used.

Really just started thinking about it this weekend, but would like some feedback on what may be the best route based on my equipment set-up.

 

[CorporateHippie]

I guess anything can be done but I think your setup is too small for a parti0gyle. If you are simply trying to collect more wort out of one mash then I would just shoot for a session beer of some sort and collect 10-12 gallons. Otherwise your flavors could be too far off with not a huge difference in the gravity. I have used a party gyle in the past when trying to build a MONSTER beer. I use the first runnings only and then the second runnings go into a session beer. I think this is the reasoning behind it.

Try this calculator for fun... If you build a recipe and know how much wort you plan to collect, this can guesstimate what gravity will be on first and second runnings .

http://astrocaver.com/java/Parti-Gyle.html

 

[crash568]

So oddly enough I just did my first BIAB parti-gyle last week and it actually went off with out a hitch. I did a 2.5 gal batch of an imperial stout at about 13 lbs of grain my first runnings came in with an OG of 1.084. I started that kettel on its way to boil as I heated up my next batch of strike water to about 155* and added my grain in the bag back in stirred it up real good and let it rest for about 5-10 minutes. Pulled the bag and had a pretty week wort at only about 1.015 so lucky for me I had some DME and a pound of honey on hand at the house. I added an extra 15 min boil time and the 2nd beer ended up with an OG of 1.046. So now I have a batch of my big imperial stout and a batch of my smaller holiday porter both of which are tasting great and will be ready in plenty of time for Xmas!

 

[markstache]

I do a lot of partigyles, not so much to get big beers but to get more variety in the same number of brew days. I find that since I'm saving time on set up, clean up and tear down, I can get 2 beers for the cost of 1.5 brew days.

My strategy is as follows:
1. Write recipe 1 using brewing software setting the efficiency at about 45% (for a 5 gallon batch).
2. When I've got it where I want it, I copy the recipe and reset the efficiency to 30% (45 + 30 = 75, my typical overall efficiency).
3. I can then tweak hops and yeast for each separately. Sometimes I'll add some specialty grains to the second batch.
4. On brew day, I drain the first batch, saving a gallon or so to add back to the second batch. This helps me titrate the pre-boil gravity of my first batch as well, if I need more sugar or need to add water.
5. After I'm done with the first batch (in fermenter), drain for the second batch, adding the gallon from the first batch (or whatever remains).
6. Proceed as normal from here on out.

For this procedure, I'll typically make a first batch in the neighborhood of 1.060 and second batch in the neighborhood of 1.040.

For unequal sized batches (and more unevenly divided OG), clearly my 45-30 rule will not work. It might work to write the recipe as if it is 45% efficient for grains, copy it for the second batch, and then scale down the first batch recipe to 2 or 3 gallons to get the hops correct. You would use the grain quantities from the original/second recipe numbers.

 

[CKing]

Initial thought is normal batch of Oatmeal Stout, then add a portion of new specialty grains to the mash tun and collect final runnings for a "Mild" so to speak. Goal here is to get a standard batch plus a 2.5 gallon batch on the same brew day. Have a pound or two of DME on hand if I need to boost the small beer.

 

[tennesseean_87]

I do a lot of partigyles, not so much to get big beers but to get more variety in the same number of brew days. I find that since I'm saving time on set up, clean up and tear down, I can get 2 beers for the cost of 1.5 brew days.

My strategy is as follows:
1. Write recipe 1 using brewing software setting the efficiency at about 45% (for a 5 gallon batch).
2. When I've got it where I want it, I copy the recipe and reset the efficiency to 30% (45 + 30 = 75, my typical overall efficiency).
3. I can then tweak hops and yeast for each separately. Sometimes I'll add some specialty grains to the second batch.
4. On brew day, I drain the first batch, saving a gallon or so to add back to the second batch. This helps me titrate the pre-boil gravity of my first batch as well, if I need more sugar or need to add water.
5. After I'm done with the first batch (in fermenter), drain for the second batch, adding the gallon from the first batch (or whatever remains).
6. Proceed as normal from here on out.

For this procedure, I'll typically make a first batch in the neighborhood of 1.060 and second batch in the neighborhood of 1.040.

For unequal sized batches (and more unevenly divided OG), clearly my 45-30 rule will not work. It might work to write the recipe as if it is 45% efficient for grains, copy it for the second batch, and then scale down the first batch recipe to 2 or 3 gallons to get the hops correct. You would use the grain quantities from the original/second recipe numbers.

This sounds similar to what I do, and for exactly the same reason. See the link in my sig. I shoot for smaller grav differences by diluting and using a base grainbill and capping each beer with steeped specialty grains separately for differentiating styles.

 

[lump42]

I like Kai's batch sparse and parti-gyle simulator. It lets you adjust for amount of grain, efficiency, And water/grist ratio.

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Batch_Sparge_and_Party_Gyle_Simulator

 

[Bosh]

Was considering doing a parti-sparge because my brew pot can only really handle ten pounds of grain like so:
-Mash 10 pounds of grain BIAB in my (annoyingly small) brew pot.
-While that's going heat up a lot of sparge water.
-Throw sparge water in my bottling bucket (making sure it's nice and hot).
-Take the bag out of the brew pot, add a few more pounds of grain and throw it in the sparge water.
-Hope to get some conversion in the bucket despite having crap insulation.

Probably not going to do that, am leaning towards running two mashes at once (ten pounds in my brew pot and a few extra pounds with an old grain steeping bag in my biggest soup pot), and then do a mini dunk sparge so I don't get so much water that I have to boil everything for hours to make a strong ale.

 

[Qhrumphf]

I also do a lot of partigyles, however, my approach is a little bit different. I determine the two beers I want, along with their volumes and gravities (I usually shoot for two 5.5 gallon batches of similar styling but different gravities, say a Saison and Petite Saison, or a Wee Heavy and 80/-, or an English Barleywine and Best Bitter, you get the point).

Then I'll calculate the gravity points for both, add them together, and use that with the combined volume to determine a theoretical combined gravity. For example, a 9 Plato English Bitter and a 25 Plato Barleywine, each at 5.5 gallons leaves me with 49.5 and 137.5 gravity points each, or 187 total points, meaning at my normal efficiency I need a grain bill for 11 gallons at 17 Plato (math works the same for specific gravity, don't worry about the Plato, it's just what I use).

I'll devise the hop bills separately, based upon my normal preboil volume at the expected gravity for each batch.

On brew day, I calculate my water volumes so that I draw 3 approximately equivalent groups of runnings, 1st unsparged, 2nd from an intial batch sparge, and 3rd from a second batch sparge, usually 4-5 gallons each depending on the boil length I'm going for. After double checking the gravities (I use Kai's batch sparge/partigyle simulator and as long as I enter the grain data properly, I get ~98-99% conversion efficiency, and the numbers are almost dead on for me every time) I'll then blend those runnings together pre-boil making sure that both beers get a portion of the first runnings, boil and I'm on my way.

I've done the sporadic addition of extra grain, but typically I'm doing higher and lower gravity versions of a similar malt profile. The craziest one I've done was a sour mash that I partigyled, splitting the sour runnings in half, giving the sparge runnings to a Gose and then doing a separate mash of Rauchmalz in addition to half the sour runnings for a Lichtenhainer. In that case, both worked out to the same volume and approximately the same gravity.