Please "Grade" my first AG!

[Timboosh]

Alright, third brew ever, and I tried All Grain... I’ve been reading as much as I can, and probably watched every youtube video on the subject. There’s something alluring about making beer from it’s most fundamental ingredients, so I gave it a shot. At this point it’s more madness than method… but I’m trying to learn the method.

The following may be a bit long-winded, but I’d rather give too much information than not enough… PLEASE have a read through my procedure and notes. I'm really trying to learn as much as I can to refine my technique(s) and try to fix any "bad habits" early on.

I really want to start to understand and know the various flavors out there, SO, I decided to try a SMaSH for my first AG, and plan to do many more…

The recipe: (A very slight variation on one that shows up in a few of Deathbrewers posts :rockin: )

12# Vienna, 60 min mash w/ batch sparge
60 Min boil
3 oz Northern Brewer, 8.0%, 1oz each @ FWH, 20min, 5min.
Danstar Nottingham yeast

The Mash Process:
Note: I don't yet have any “real” computer software for AG Brewing, but used brewpal on my iPhone for all the target temps and volumes.

I pre-heated my mash tun with about 1.5 gal of 140deg water while bringing the strike water up to temp. (The pre-heat) water was drained before adding any grains or strike water.

I added about 4 gallons of water heated to 166deg (calc called for 3.7). Then mixed in the grain, stirring well. After all grain was added, after having the lid closed for a few minutes to stabilize, the temp was 160 degrees (brewed outside and the grain was in the sun??). I stirred more and added a little “room temp” water to bring it down. It finally settled at 155deg after about 3-4 minutes. I then started my mash timer. Not sure if I was supposed to do this @ dough in or when I hit my temp?? so I picked one and ran with it. I checked temp at 35 minutes in (153deg) and 60 min (152 deg).

When I started my first runnings, I ran them into a sanitized pitcher for a vorlof. I’m honestly not sure if it’s good or bad (??), but it cleared up almost immediately (maybe 2-3 cups of runnings…). My tun is a 36qt igloo with a pretty basic CPVC manifold. I still just about filled the pitcher and added it back to the tun, then ran into my brew kettle. It’s a brand new kettle, so I really don’t know how much wort I got, but I’d guess about 2.5 gal?

I then added 4.5 gal of 179deg sparge water to the Tun, Stirred, and let sit for about 5-6 minutes. I did a Vorlof again, same as before, it ran clear very quickly, but I still did a few quarts for good measure.

From there, I ran until there was about 7 gallons in the kettle. (again, ballpark… it’s a new kettle – 44 qt) I took a sample for gravity and set it aside to cool. When it was down to 80 degrees, I got a gravity reading of 1.040. Adjusted, it’d be about 1.042-1.043 if I’m doing the math right. Target was 1.052 for 75% efficiency (for 6.11 gal boil volume according to brewpal, and I know there was more than that in my kettle), but to be honest, I can’t say I really expected to hit it on my first stab at AG. Any suggestions for getting closer to my targets??

 

[Timboosh]

The Boil & chill

Nothing really out of the ordinary here… 60 minute boil.
1oz Northern added at FWH (added after all runnings were out of the mash tun)
1oz @ 20min, 1oz @ 5 min.

Tried out my immersion chiller for the first time too on this brew. The temperature of the water through the chiller was about 68deg, and it got the wort down to about 95deg in about 15-20 minutes. Not phenomenally fast, but MUCH easier than an ice bath, IMO.

Once it hit 90, I transferred the wort to a sanitized carboy. I’d guess a little under 6 gal. I added an airlock and put the carboy in the bathtub full of “cold” water (probably about the same 68-70 degrees I get out of the garden hose…) It took it a little while, but it dropped down to about 72, and I pitched the yeast. Just one package, right in the mouth of the carboy.

SOOO… any thoughts on my procedure?? Anything I did REALLY wrong? Any suggestions to get my efficiency higher the next time around and get closer to my targets??

BTW – three epiphanies I had during this brewday… 1) I don’t know how I brewed the first two batches without a propane burner… 2) I don’t know how I brewed before with a 4 gallon brew kettle (full boils are WAY easier)… 3) brewing outside is awesome if only because you can clean up with a garden hose – that’s hard to do in the kitchen. lol.

Thanks in advance for any feedback and/or criticisms!!! (also, please feel free to correct me if I’m mis-using terms as well… very new to the vocabulary.)

 

[carnevoodoo]

I'm going to bed right now, but I wanted to say that you don't need to sanitize your pitcher for your vorlauf. It is pre-boil and you don't have to worry about infection at that point. You're boiling your wort after that, so it'll be fine.

 

[rl1373]

I would say to get a better idea on efficiency you need to have a better idea on volume. Best bet would be to get yourself some type of measuring device. I personally have a piece of CPVC marked with 1/2 gallon increments for the kettle. (to do this, simply fill your pot 1/2 gallon at a time and mark with a sharpie at the water line.) It's not perfect but it will definitely get you a better idea.

Other thing is to get a measuring container. I have one that is a gallon and is marked in quart and cup increments. If the recipe calls for 3.7 gallons try to get close. 16 cups in a gallon. So 12 cups or 3 quarts instead of 4 gallons. The more accurate you are with measurements the better you will be at calculating efficiency.

Measure the temperature of your grains and make sure to use the correct quantity of water when you calculate your strike temp. These will definitely have an influence in mash temp.

All in all it looks like your on the right track.

 

[Yooper]

I would say to get a better idea on efficiency you need to have a better idea on volume. Best bet would be to get yourself some type of measuring device. I personally have a piece of CPVC marked with 1/2 gallon increments for the kettle. (to do this, simply fill your pot 1/2 gallon at a time and mark with a sharpie at the water line.) It's not perfect but it will definitely get you a better idea.

Other thing is to get a measuring container. I have one that is a gallon and is marked in quart and cup increments. If the recipe calls for 3.7 gallons try to get close. 16 cups in a gallon. So 12 cups or 3 quarts instead of 4 gallons. The more accurate you are with measurements the better you will be at calculating efficiency.

Measure the temperature of your grains and make sure to use the correct quantity of water when you calculate your strike temp. These will definitely have an influence in mash temp.

All in all it looks like your on the right track.

That was going to be my only suggestion as well. In order to nail your volumes and know your efficiency, the volume measurements are crucial. You can scratch a mash paddle with 3, 3.5, 4, etc, for "measuring" in your kettle. Just do it with water, and mark each volume so next time you know. Then, when your first runnings are 3 gallons, for example, you know that your sparge volume needs to be 3.5 gallons to get a boil volume of 6.5. (You don't lose sparge water volume, since the grains have absorbed all the liquid they are going to during the mash).

I added a sight glass to my MLT, but it's not needed if you measure the liquid going in.

Knowing your efficiency isn't critical for bragging rights, but it's important for recipe formulation and consistency. The efficiency impacts your IBUs and the balance of your beer.

I like Beersmith as it helps me with the calculations but it's definitely not necessary if you're happy with the app you're using.

 

[Timboosh]

Thank you for the suggestions! I like the idea of the CPVC measuring stick... a 5' or 6' length is like $2.50 at the hardware store.

I also think I need to get a better thermometer. Been using a floating thermometer, but I think a nice digital one is in order.

I know I didn't need to sanitize the pitcher, but I've taken to just sanitizing EVERYTHING while I'm going. Probably overkill, but it helps my peace of mind.

Another question... I was a little surprised at the difference in color between the last of the first runnings (strike water, not sure of the proper terminology here) and the second runnings (sparge water). First was a pretty dark amber, second was MUCH more blond/clear (think miller lite, I guess). Is it pretty normal to see a pretty stark difference??

 

[joety]

<<<I know I didn't need to sanitize the pitcher, but I've taken to just sanitizing EVERYTHING while I'm going.>>>

It's pretty simple really. Pre-boil; just clean. Post-boil; clean and sanitize. There is so much going on pre-boil you will drive yourself nuts being a Felix Unger about it and I consider it a "bad habit", as you say.

Since you are struggling a bit with temps and volumes, I'd definitely try the 20 day free trial for Beersmith for your next batch. It's very simple, allows you to adjust for pre-heating or not pre-heating your mashtun and has most common mash tun configurations preloaded. It's really a bargain at $20.

BTW: I use ice to bring the temps down in the mash tun; just takes a bit longer to let them melt and stir them in. With room temp water, you'll need a lot more and impact the water/grist ratio you are shooting for. Not a huge problem, but if you are looking for repeatable results the ratio is a factor.

 

[KevinW]

The Boil & chill

Tried out my immersion chiller for the first time too on this brew. The temperature of the water through the chiller was about 68deg, and it got the wort down to about 95deg in about 15-20 minutes. Not phenomenally fast, but MUCH easier than an ice bath, IMO.

Once it hit 90, I transferred the wort to a sanitized carboy. I’d guess a little under 6 gal. I added an airlock and put the carboy in the bathtub full of “cold” water

I was curious about this, why did you transfer your wort to a carboy when you hit 90°? I would think it would be easier(and quicker) to just keep running your IC until the temp gets closer to the water running through it.

You would be surprised at how well those IC's work. If you are trying to keep your wort from being infected by putting it in the carboy it is not gonna happen. Unless your kettle is uncoverd while chilling you have just as much chance of infection sitting in the carboy in a cold water bath as you do cooling it longer in the kettle!

It is kind of difficult to infect your beer as long as you are "post boil" sanitized and you pitch your yeast soon after cooling the wort. The yeast can quickly "overtake" most non wanted yucky stuff!

Keep on brewing!

 

[Timboosh]

I was curious about this, why did you transfer your wort to a carboy when you hit 90°? I would think it would be easier(and quicker) to just keep running your IC until the temp gets closer to the water running through it.

You would be surprised at how well those IC's work. If you are trying to keep your wort from being infected by putting it in the carboy it is not gonna happen. Unless your kettle is uncoverd while chilling you have just as much chance of infection sitting in the carboy in a cold water bath as you do cooling it longer in the kettle!

It is kind of difficult to infect your beer as long as you are "post boil" sanitized and you pitch your yeast soon after cooling the wort. The yeast can quickly "overtake" most non wanted yucky stuff!

Keep on brewing!

Well, basically 2 reasons, Light and bugs...

I was brewing outside (for the first time), and got started a bit late. By the time I hit about 90 degrees there was very little sunlight left and the bugs were starting to come out in force, and were very interested in my wort (don't worry, none got in). So I decided at 90 degrees I better just transfer & "seal it up" (to keep it from getting 'infected' by actual bugs) until it was cool enough to pitch.

That's an easy lesson though... next time I'll start earlier in the day.

And absolutely yes, the IC works really well (even though mine's only 25')! I wish I had a way to get colder water through it. One day maybe I'll get a pump and a big ice bath going, or a second IC to sit in an ice bath to really cool the water down (kind of a 2 stage IC deal, one to cool the internal water, one to cool the wort)... but for now it's the garden hose faucet.

 

[carnevoodoo]

I do the same thing with my beer. I get it to 80ish and then put it in a carboy. Not because I worry about infection, but because I feel like I am just wasting water at that point. My fermentation chamber can cool it down fast enough.

 

[rl1373]

The reason your seeing difference in color is because your seeing a difference in the amount of sugar your extracting from the grain. Your first running will be heavy with sugar thus darker in color. Each additional running will be lighter in color as you are extracting less sugar.

Another question... I was a little surprised at the difference in color between the last of the first runnings (strike water, not sure of the proper terminology here) and the second runnings (sparge water). First was a pretty dark amber, second was MUCH more blond/clear (think miller lite, I guess). Is it pretty normal to see a pretty stark difference??

 

[Timboosh]

The reason your seeing difference in color is because your seeing a difference in the amount of sugar your extracting from the grain. Your first running will be heavy with sugar thus darker in color. Each additional running will be lighter in color as you are extracting less sugar.

Makes perfect sense - I was just surprised at how different 1st and 2nd runnings were in color...

 

[DirtyPolock]

It looks like you have your procedures down pretty good. I agree with what was said before with getting a better idea on your volumes to get a more accurate efficiency. One thing that I didn't notice you discuss was how you crushed your grains. Did you have your grains crushed at your LHBS, or do you have your own crusher?

I don't know for sure but I have read many times here that LHBS typically do not give a good crush on their grains on purpose in order for you to buy more grains based on a poor efficiency. Like I said this may not be a problem with every LHBS but be warned about this potential risk.

Also when sparging you may try two or even three batch sparges to get as much sugar out as possible. For example you need a total of 6 gallons sparge water, break it down into 2 gallons for each sparge. You will notice each running get progressively clearer with each sparge. On my first all grain I used two batch sparges and hit a 75% eff., but on my second all grain I used 3 batch sparges and increased to an 80% eff.

 

[Timboosh]

It looks like you have your procedures down pretty good. I agree with what was said before with getting a better idea on your volumes to get a more accurate efficiency. One thing that I didn't notice you discuss was how you crushed your grains. Did you have your grains crushed at your LHBS, or do you have your own crusher?

I don't know for sure but I have read many times here that LHBS typically do not give a good crush on their grains on purpose in order for you to buy more grains based on a poor efficiency. Like I said this may not be a problem with every LHBS but be warned about this potential risk.

Also when sparging you may try two or even three batch sparges to get as much sugar out as possible. For example you need a total of 6 gallons sparge water, break it down into 2 gallons for each sparge. You will notice each running get progressively clearer with each sparge. On my first all grain I used two batch sparges and hit a 75% eff., but on my second all grain I used 3 batch sparges and increased to an 80% eff.

I did have my LHBS chush the grains for me, and will probably continue to do so for a while so I don't have to spend any more on equipment. They carry crushed on the shelf that they crush and package in house, but actually crushed mine while I waited so they wouldn't have to re-stock the shelves. In the mean time they offered everybody in the store a healthy sample of a Belgian Wit they just tapped, so if that cost me a few efficiency points, I guess that's alright... lol.

Interesting approach with the 'multiple' batch sparges. I'll definitely have to store that idea away for future use.

Thanks for the comments everyone. Keep 'em coming!!

 

[msa8967]

Just wanted to say again that the free trial of beersmith is well worth the time as you start doing all grain brewing. I have been doing all grain batches for the last 5 months and the use of beersmith has made things much easier. You do not have to sign up for anything to get their free trial and there is nothing to cancel on either. You get 45 days to use your 20 free days and after my period was up I decided $20 was very cheap for this program compared to making mistakes with batches by doing the calculations by hand. there are also many sample recipes you can play with and alter ingredienst as well as a good reference for different types of grain, hops and yeasts.

Just my $0.02 worth. Other software programs like promash may also be worth looking into in case you don't like the format of beersmith.

 

[Timboosh]

Yeah - I'm getting the impression that investment in a program is a really good idea. I'm one of those weirdo mac users, so I've pulled down the trial of Beer Alchemy to give it a go. I have windows on my machine, but would just assume stay native in OSX if I can. So far the program seems pretty intuitive, so I'll probably pull the trigger on it.

 

[Timboosh]

Thanks to the suggestions is in order...

I brewed my 2nd AG batch this weekend (NCBeernut's 'Deception Cream Stout' recipe... :rockin: ) and it went quite a bit more smoothly than the first AG batch. I missed my mash temp a little low and used some hot water to bring it up a touch. (Still obviously learning the equipment w/ only 1 batch under the belt at the time).

But do in large part to the suggestions here, I paid much closer attention to my volumes and where then needed to be for my pre-boil volume. Got me up close to 76% efficiency and kept me very close to the gravities I was supposed to hit based on the recipe.

Thanks much for the help & suggestions.

 

[KingKegII]

Great job! Over your first few AG brews you'll learn little tricks to get better measurements, to do things more efficiently and to overall make the brewday go faster and smoother. A couple of thoughts based on previous posts...

I batch sparge and do the double-sparge, so if sparge calls for 4 gallons I do two sparges at 2 gallons each. A word of caution on multiple sparges is that with each sparge you change the pH of the mash, which can result in extracting tannins from the grains which could lead to an astringent taste in your beer. I haven't noticed anything w/ my beers but others may have some experience w/ this.

Also, one of the best things I did was to use yeast starters. Starters reduce effects of any infections you may have and allow the yeast to work w/out being stressed (assuming proper fermentation temps) and also allow full attenuation, resulting in fewer off-flavors and helping you hit the target flavor & mouthfeel profile you're aiming for based on your recipe.

Finally, +1 on using your immersion chiller to get to pitching temps. I realize you transferred to water bath b/c of bugs, but with 68 degree tap water (in summer, prob even colder in winter) you should be able to get down to ~75 F w/in 15 to 25 minutes. You can really accelerate the cooling process by constantly stirring your wort as it cools, it's a bit of a PITA but it makes it go by so much faster.

 

[Timboosh]

Great job! Over your first few AG brews you'll learn little tricks to get better measurements, to do things more efficiently and to overall make the brewday go faster and smoother. A couple of thoughts based on previous posts...

I batch sparge and do the double-sparge, so if sparge calls for 4 gallons I do two sparges at 2 gallons each. A word of caution on multiple sparges is that with each sparge you change the pH of the mash, which can result in extracting tannins from the grains which could lead to an astringent taste in your beer. I haven't noticed anything w/ my beers but others may have some experience w/ this.

Also, one of the best things I did was to use yeast starters. Starters reduce effects of any infections you may have and allow the yeast to work w/out being stressed (assuming proper fermentation temps) and also allow full attenuation, resulting in fewer off-flavors and helping you hit the target flavor & mouthfeel profile you're aiming for based on your recipe.

I actually did a starter for a DIPA I did a month or so ago and it worked quite well... I need to make it a more consistent practice.

Interesting input on doing 2 sparges and it's impact on pH and tannins... I actually tried this very thing for this batch based on someone's comment. My sparge was supposed to be 4 gal according to my software, BUT since I had to add a bit of hot water to my mash to get the temp up, it ended up being more like 3.5 gallons (pre boil volume - first runnings method). So I did a 2 gallon & a 1.5 gallon sparge.

Actually, your input inspires a few more questions on the sparge specifically... if ya'll are up to it.

1. Lets say I calculate that I need 3.5 gallons of sparge water to get thepre-boil volume I need based on my first runnings. Is there reasons (other than the obvious waste of water and gas) "TO" or "NOT TO" break it into (2) 2 gallon sparges and stop the 2nd sparge at 1.5 gallons - leaving .5 gallons in the mash tun?

2. Can you taste tannins in the pre-boil wort? or would it be so sweet that it would mask it?? For instance, if I broke my sparge into 3 sparges and took a sample of the 3rd sparge - and I had at that point started to get a lot of tannins out of the grains, could I taste it and opt not to boil the final runnings?