Pitched at 100F...

[jbaysurfer]

I know, I know. And other then say that I was using a new plate chiller for the first time, and was distracted by the pride in remembering to use a "getter" magnet to retrieve the stir bar from my starter....I pitched into my fermentor THEN thought..crap...what's the wort temp?

Sure enough it was 100F.

The wort was in the carboy already, and I didn't want to compound my error by starting to run the wort+yeast through the chiller again, so I put the carboy in the fermentor/chest freezer, and taped the probe to the side of the carboy. The freezer kicked in, and within an hour the temp was in the 80s and at about 2 hours it was in the high 70s.

Now it's sitting (not showing signs of fermentation yet, but that's not abnormal, I brewed last night and pitched at about midnight) in the fermentor chamber at 66 degrees.

Info:
All Cascade IPA 75 minute boil
2 LBS DME with 30 minutes left in the boil.
7 LBS LME
Steeped 1lb of crystal 20L for 30 minutes at 150ish then yanked at 165ish.
Hopped at 75, 45, and 10min.
Cooled to 100 in about 10 minutes (should have gone slower..this was my mistake with the new wort chiller).
Pitched White Labs Cali Ale V.
OG: 1.066

So..speculation?

I'm not worried. I already did the RDWHAHB thing, I'm just at that point where waiting and thinking about my beer are the only options.

The only other time I pitched into high temps (2nd batch ever...I was told to just put my hand on the side of the kettle and when it was merely warm to go ahead and transfer/pitch), the bubbling started right away and I ended up with off-flavors from the high ferm temps...but this time it didn't get off to that rock and roll start, so I'm theorizing I shocked the yeast, and that when they do kick in I might be ok, but the lower attenuating V yeast may end me up a little on the short side for FG. I kind of figured out after I already had prepared my starter that Cali V may not be the best for an IPA.

 

[passedpawn]

That won't hurt the yeast - they like it at that temp. (another 10-20F and you have a problem though). Not the best way to make good beer unless you are making a saisson or Berliner Weiss or similar.

Unfortunately, there is probably zero O2 in there. You need to aerate that somehow if didn't already do that. Liquid yeast needs O2 to propagate.

 

[jbaysurfer]

That won't hurt the yeast - they like it at that temp. (another 10-20F and you have a problem though). Not the best way to make good beer unless you are making a saisson or Berliner Weiss or similar.

Unfortunately, there is probably zero O2 in there. You need to aerate that somehow if didn't already do that. Liquid yeast needs O2 to propagate.

Thanks for the quick reply. I gave the recipe but didn't get into the specifics of the whole process for brevity reasons..but I did indeed aerate it. I used a power drill and a wing-stirrer (for lack of a better description) for about 5-6 minutes before I pitched and a couple minutes after. That thing truly got the wort spinning, so I'm guessing it aerated pretty well.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Well, if there is any way to prove/disprove HSA then a wing stirrer in 100*F wort is the way to do it.

 

[Ravenshead]

I've done the wing stir thing at 100 several times. No HSA that I can tell and it helps speed up cooling.

 

[BierMuncher]

You should be fine. The impact of introducing yeast to 100 degree wort is much different than allowing it to ferment at that temp. You corrected in plenty of time.

 

[jbaysurfer]

Well, if there is any way to prove/disprove HSA then a wing stirrer in 100*F wort is the way to do it.

Indeed. I'll be sure to follow up with you on that ;-)

 

[jbaysurfer]

You should be fine. The impact of introducing yeast to 100 degree wort is much different than allowing it to ferment at that temp. You corrected in plenty of time.

Thank you for the words of encouragement good sir!

 

[jbaysurfer]

So fermentation started, and in case anyone else finds this thread in the future, I figured I'd just follow up with a pic.

Looks pretty good to me!

 

[newbrewjay]

great post I actually just did this with my first batch i was a little under 100F when i pitched. Then to realized my temp gauge wasnt working. I have been worried about if this would be an issue. But you guys have but my worries to rest.

 

[Hermit]

Will 100F wort hold the same/adequate levels of oxygen? I know CO2 comes out more readily at higher temps.

 

[jbaysurfer]

Will 100F wort hold the same/adequate levels of oxygen? I know CO2 comes out more readily at higher temps.

Your post got me to geek out a little bit. What I came up with is that you are correct, there is indeed a relationship between solubility of oxygen and temperature. Basically, what I came up with is that @ 100F Oxygen is roughly 50% less soluble in water then it is at 70f.

Since I used a wing stirrer, I'd guess I probably improved 50% (I think this is conservative, these things really move the wort around) or more in efficiency over the typical "shake" method of aeration so maybe it's a wash?

Only time will tell. It's bubbling pretty good right now. We'll see where it finishes in a few weeks. (I'll probably leave it be for about a month from now.

 

[Hermit]

Your post got me to geek out a little bit. What I came up with is that you are correct, there is indeed a relationship between solubility of oxygen and temperature. Basically, what I came up with is that @ 100F Oxygen is roughly 50% less soluble in water then it is at 70f.

Since I used a wing stirrer, I'd guess I probably improved 50% (I think this is conservative, these things really move the wort around) or more in efficiency over the typical "shake" method of aeration so maybe it's a wash?

Only time will tell. It's bubbling pretty good right now. We'll see where it finishes in a few weeks. (I'll probably leave it be for about a month from now.

You only get to a certain PPM given that method IF you are 100% effective. Figure goes up and down depending on who you quote though. Some processes indicate to me that yeast stop eating when they run out of sugar. That is why so many attempts to restart fermentation fail. Also, even if I ended high, putting in some sugar seems to always carbonate so the yeast ain't dead.

 

[jbaysurfer]

You only get to a certain PPM given that method IF you are 100% effective. Figure goes up and down depending on who you quote though. Some processes indicate to me that yeast stop eating when they run out of sugar. That is why so many attempts to restart fermentation fail. Also, even if I ended high, putting in some sugar seems to always carbonate so the yeast ain't dead.

At any rate, I'm comfortable with how it's going so far. I'll be sure to let ya know how it turns out.

Cheers!

 

[dutchoven]

Loving this thread ... Let's put some myths to rest ... Interested to see how this turns out.

 

[prrriiide]

Wait...so I don't have to get below 90* to pitch? As long as I get the temp down to ferm temp in a few hours?

 

[emjay]

Wait...so I don't have to get below 90* to pitch? As long as I get the temp down to ferm temp in a few hours?

You don't *have* to. It's not like the yeast will die, considering it's even recommended that dry yeast be rehydrated at around 105°.

But in brewing, there's usually a world of difference between what's possible and what's ideal. I'll let you guess which one describes pitching at 90°+ .

Heck, the popular school of thought among homebrewers was, until very recently, that it's best to pitch at fermentation temp, but it's gradually being replaced by an understanding that pitching a bit *below* ferm temp is even more beneficial.

I don't mean to be a Debbie Downer, but the OP cannot possibly put any myths "to rest", despite the insistence of the poster above you. There's no reason this shouldn't ferment, or that it will turn out undrinkable, so proving these things wrong accomplishes nothing. And without a controlled comparison, you can't even begin to seriously assert that the beer is just as good as it otherwise would have been - and though I think in this particular instance the difference would be very small, I can guarantee it would have still been there.

 

[prrriiide]

I hear ya, emjay. What I'm getting at is that getting my wort down to 90* is nothing with the IC. It's that last 20 degrees or so that takes twice as long. And it'll only get worse in the summer when my H2O supply is warmer than it is now. Just trying to knock some time off of my brew day. Oh well. I figured a pre-chiller was in my near future anyway...

 

[passedpawn]

I hear ya, emjay. What I'm getting at is that getting my wort down to 90* is nothing with the IC. It's that last 20 degrees or so that takes twice as long. And it'll only get worse in the summer when my H2O supply is warmer than it is now. Just trying to knock some time off of my brew day. Oh well. I figured a pre-chiller was in my near future anyway...

I toss my 90F wort into my chest freezer for a few hours to get down to pitching temps, then pitch. In the summer my chilling water is almost 90.

 

[jbaysurfer]

You don't *have* to. It's not like the yeast will die, considering it's even recommended that dry yeast be rehydrated at around 105°.

But in brewing, there's usually a world of difference between what's possible and what's ideal. I'll let you guess which one describes pitching at 90°+ .

Heck, the popular school of thought among homebrewers was, until very recently, that it's best to pitch at fermentation temp, but it's gradually being replaced by an understanding that pitching a bit *below* ferm temp is even more beneficial.

I don't mean to be a Debbie Downer, but the OP cannot possibly put any myths "to rest", despite the insistence of the poster above you. There's no reason this shouldn't ferment, or that it will turn out undrinkable, so proving these things wrong accomplishes nothing. And without a controlled comparison, you can't even begin to seriously assert that the beer is just as good as it otherwise would have been - and though I think in this particular instance the difference would be very small, I can guarantee it would have still been there.

OK Debbie Downer!

It's not like anybody's trying to start a movement to pitch all yeast at 100F, or that anybody (including "the OP") is asserting that it's the "ideal" way to do it. I made a mistake. I don't intend to ever make that mistake again, and I didn't make the mistake intending to share some sort of homebrewing empirical scientific revolution.....

But just as the thread about screwups you've committed where the beer still came out ok does, maybe it'll convince somebody who makes this mistake in the future to relax, don't worry.......

That doesn't require a scientific control.

So who is ACTUALLY interested in tasting this beer. I appreciate all the responses and this is the first thread I've ever started here on HBT.com...so in return, I'll send out 4 bombers of this to the first four who PM me (when it's ready...I refuse to hurry my beer!). The only requirement is that you live in the US, and that you chime in after you've tasted it. Even if it will "prove" nothing (I know I know...very audacious!). Also, I'll be honest in my tasting. If it's crap I'll just tell you and save the postage. But if it's drinkable, I'll ship 'em!

edit:
BTW Emjay...I say all of this respectfully, I know you are probably wary of this thread starting a "myth" that it's ok to pitch beer at that temp...and I fully agree there's no question that this is NOT the ideal way to do things. The "Debbie Downer" comment was just me messin' around with you!

 

[jbaysurfer]

BTW I should point out that it did indeed lag for 30+ hours before onset of fermentation, so that ought to dissuade you from trying it all by itself (IMHO).

For me it's just an issue of slowing the rate of flow through the plate chiller, it was my first use of it so that may take a couple brews to get used to.

 

[Brewnoob1]

A little off topic, but did I miss something? 10 minutes to cool is too fast? I thought the ideology was to cool as fast as possible for a solid cold break?

 

[jbaysurfer]

A little off topic, but did I miss something? 10 minutes to cool is too fast? I thought the ideology was to cool as fast as possible for a solid cold break?

I'm not following you 100%..but maybe this will help?

I said I needed to slow the rate of flow through my plate chiller because if you let it flow too fast the contact with the heat exchangers (the plates) is insufficient (in duration) to properly cool your wort.

BTW Brewnoob: This is also an all cascade IPA. I used up all my amarillo on my previous batch! LOL!

 

[BrewGardenCA]

Ha! Brewing up in Canada in the winter, we can just set our carboy out in the porch for a bit to get the temperature down. In fact, when I was brewing with some friends last month (on the winter solstice, no less) we just took our kettles off the burners and stuck them in the snowbank until the temp came down.

See, there are plusses to living in the Great White North!

 

[Brewnoob1]

I'm not following you 100%..but maybe this will help?

I said I needed to slow the rate of flow through my plate chiller because if you let it flow too fast the contact with the heat exchangers (the plates) is insufficient (in duration) to properly cool your wort.

BTW Brewnoob: This is also an all cascade IPA. I used up all my amarillo on my previous batch! LOL!

Ah, makes sense now!

Let me know how your all Cascade turns out! I'm trying it out and from the smell that is coming out of the fermenter...it's going to be a keeper because it smells freaking delicious!

 

[flabyboy]

Surprised more people don't use a wing stirrer. Seems like the next best solution to oxygen stone

 

[jbaysurfer]

Oh Canada! And then you get more time to snowboard with the cooling time you save! :rockin:

Brewnoob, so far so good. Sulfur smell coming out of it right now..but that's not really surprising given it's at high krausen (cue the oak ridge boyz):

 

[Brewnoob1]

My carboy is being used by another brew so my Cascade is in my bucket so I can't see much. I popped the lid go and take a gravity sample and surprisingly, krausen level was WAY up...so I just shut her back up and am postponing my gravity reading. It smelled amazing..I have VERY high hopes for this IPA. Your OG was higher than mine. I had a 1.056 I believe. How much hops did you use? I believe I did 4oz total. 60 min, 20, 10, and flameout. I was going to go with 5 and try dry hopping but decided against it to stick with the original All Amarillo IPA recipe...and only used 4oz since I was doing full boils. We'll see...I'm stoked for this one to be done.

 

[jbaysurfer]

My carboy is being used by another brew so my Cascade is in my bucket so I can't see much. I popped the lid go and take a gravity sample and surprisingly, krausen level was WAY up...so I just shut her back up and am postponing my gravity reading. It smelled amazing..I have VERY high hopes for this IPA. Your OG was higher than mine. I had a 1.056 I believe. How much hops did you use? I believe I did 4oz total. 60 min, 20, 10, and flameout. I was going to go with 5 and try dry hopping but decided against it to stick with the original All Amarillo IPA recipe...and only used 4oz since I was doing full boils. We'll see...I'm stoked for this one to be done.

I did an ounce at 75minutes, an ounce at 45, and 2 oz at 5min.

I also intend to dryhop with a minimum of 2 oz and did a full boil. I don't know if it's gonna be bitter enough though...but I'll compensate as much as possible with copious dryhops.

I'm aware that recipes like Pliny call for a full pound of hops (counting dryhopping), but I was trying to stay withing the BJCP guidelines for a true IPA, not an IIPA.

 

[dallasdb]

Surprised more people don't use a wing stirrer. Seems like the next best solution to oxygen stone

Got any pictures?

 

[jbaysurfer]

Got any pictures?

Here's mine. Got it from Morebeer...

 

[flabyboy]

Here's mine. Got it from Morebeer...

Exactly what mine looks like. I originally bought it to degas the wine I make from kits. You actually use that thing on wine after fermentation, which you would never do with beer

 

[jbaysurfer]

Exactly what mine looks like. I originally bought it to degas the wine I make from kits. You actually use that thing on wine after fermentation, which you would never do with beer

Crazy.

I'm intrigued by winemaking...but I have a lot more to learn about beer before I start branching out!

 

[jbaysurfer]

I just wanted to report back about this beer.

It turns out that the pitch temperature, HSA and any other questions that this batch brought about were all answered in the RDWHAHB style..it all worked out fine. The beer would actually be my best so far...except for I skunked it.

How you're wondering? Well, my ferm chamber uses a 40W bulb as a heater. I have been meaning to build a little heat sink/shade with a small terricota pot, but I had found it worked just fine as along as I kept my carboys covered. Enter the problem. One day while adding dryhops to the two batches I had in there..I neglected to recover the carboys. A couple hours later I realized..and ran back hoping the light hadn't kicked on yet..but sure enough..it was already on, and I had no idea how long (probably not more then 15 minutes or so..as the chamber doesn't cycle all that often..it's pretty efficient)

So yeah..it got skunked.

To the two people who took me up on my offer and wanted to taste it...I haven't tossed the beer....because it wasn't skunked that badly. It's really only noticeable in the aroma of the beer, and the taste is actually pretty decent. If you really want to taste the skunked beer, I'll still honor my promise..but if you're over it, I don't mind saving the shipping. You can reply here or via PM.

All said and done, apparently, if you pitch at 100F but get your temp under control ASAP, you'll probably be ok.

RDWHAHB ;-)

 

[RM-MN]

Remember that sulfur smell you mentioned in post #27. That sulfur compound is present in the odor of a skunk and that might be what you smell. If so it will go away with more time in the bottle.

It's very difficult to skunk your beer with and incandescent light because it takes UV to skunk it and an incandescent has very little of that in its spectrum. Have you ever sat under an incandescent light to get a tan? Not likely because it would take months.

 

[Brewnoob1]

Just an update on my All Cascade brew, I kegged it and it has been carbing. I pulled the first pint on Saturday and a few buddies helped me go through most of the keg. Needless to say, it was pretty much amazing. I need to get the stuff to brew this again. The bitterness was perfect me for me. So the 4oz of hops worked well for my taste. However, I may dry hop next time to add a bit more punch in the nose feel from the hops. Other than the slight lack of aroma, the flavor was awesome. I hope you enjoy yours as much as I have mine! It will definitely be a steady brew in my pipeline.

 

[passedpawn]

Yea, I'm positive that 15 minutes near a 40W incandescent bulb won't be a problem. Not only does an incandescent have very little power at the blue end of the spectrum, but glass (your carboy) naturally filters most of the UV light anyway. So, you'd need a strong source (i.e., sun) AND a lot of time to cause a problem (if the problem is even real - never experienced it myself).

Oh, and I'll pass on the skunky beer. But I bet it gets a lot better if you just leave it alone for a while. Cheers.

 

[HopHeadGrady]

I left my Coopers DIY (clear plastic) fermenter on a basement table with the light coming in through a window for 5 days. Beer tasted great. It wasn't direct sunlight by any means, but it was sunlight. I suspect something else. Put it in a green bottle and it's status quo I guess ... lol

 

[jbaysurfer]

I left my Coopers DIY (clear plastic) fermenter on a basement table with the light coming in through a window for 5 days. Beer tasted great. It wasn't direct sunlight by any means, but it was sunlight. I suspect something else. Put it in a green bottle and it's status quo I guess ... lol

Different situation. My beer is skunked. There's no mistaking that odor. Probably because mine was in a chest freezer with a highly reflective interior finish, and the bulb was inches away from the carboy. I don't know how long the light was on..but the odor is a calling card.

Everything I've read, and experienced tells me it is far easier to skunk beer then you may realize. I'm glad your experience worked out for you.

Also, I'm kind of a beer snob, and I don't dig on sharing beer that I wouldn't drink. I've got a friend who'll take it off my hands, but I didn't get into brewing to drink a bunch of bad beer, so I'll just stoke my less discerning friend out.

 

[jbaysurfer]

Remember that sulfur smell you mentioned in post #27. That sulfur compound is present in the odor of a skunk and that might be what you smell. If so it will go away with more time in the bottle.

It's very difficult to skunk your beer with and incandescent light because it takes UV to skunk it and an incandescent has very little of that in its spectrum. Have you ever sat under an incandescent light to get a tan? Not likely because it would take months.

Well, I kegged it and will wait it out for exactly this reason. If it doesn't go away I will bro out a friend.

FTR, my nose is pretty good, and the sulphur odor actually abated and was distinctly different then the skunk odor.

3-methylbut-2-ene-1-thiol is the chemical and it's very very close to the exact same chemical skunks use to defend themselves. We have lots of skunks around here so unfortunately I've grown very familiar with it over the years.