Pimp my first CDA

[HockeyBoy29]

Would love to hear feedback on proposed CDA-ish ale:

12.0 lbs Marris Otter (73%)
1.0 lbs Malted Rye (6%)
3.0 lbs Biscuit Malt (12%)
1.0 lbs Caramel 60 (6%)
0.5 lbs Chocolate Malt (3%)

17.5 Total (100%)

6 oz Cascade
1 @ 60
1 @ 15
1 @ 5
1 @ whirlpool
2 dry hop in keg

Racking onto a fresh yeast cake from a SMaSH Pale Ale WLP051 California V that I am kegging same morning.

 

[Steveruch]

3 lbs of biscuit seems like an awful lot and I use midnight wheat in my cda.

 

[HockeyBoy29]

3 lbs of biscuit seems like an awful lot and I use midnight wheat in my cda.

Thanks for the ideas - I've never used biscuit before so not sure what to expect. If I dropped the biscuit to 1.5 and added in 1.5 midnight wheat, would that sound more in line with your idea of a CDA? I'm sure that midnight wheat would put the color closer to the standard. Beer Smith shows my original recipe a tad under the L for CDAs I've seen.

Appreciate the help.

 

[Dgallo]

Agree with the 3lb or biscuit being a little much. I personally think 1lb is plenty. I would also look into carafa III as your dark grain. No astringency in the roast, just clean. Will allow the hops to shine better. Also I’d up the hops to 10-12 oz. you have to overcome the dark grains.

Cascade is a nice hop but I would pair it with chinook and citra personally. That’s my favorite black ipa/CDA combo but everyone has their own preference there.

 

[HockeyBoy29]

Agree with the 3lb or biscuit being a little much. I personally think 1lb is plenty. I would also look into carafa III as your dark grain. No astringency in the roast, just clean. Will allow the hops to shine better. Also I’d up the hops to 10-12 oz. you have to overcome the dark grains.

Cascade is a nice hop but I would pair it with chinook and citra personally. That’s my favorite black ipa/CDA combo but everyone has their own preference there.

Thanks, I appreciate the input! I'll post my final revision when I'm done. I plan to brew Saturday.

 

[Steveruch]

Agree with the 3lb or biscuit being a little much. I personally think 1lb is plenty. I would also look into carafa III as your dark grain. No astringency in the roast, just clean. Will allow the hops to shine better. Also I’d up the hops to 10-12 oz. you have to overcome the dark grains.

Cascade is a nice hop but I would pair it with chinook and citra personally. That’s my favorite black ipa/CDA combo but everyone has their own preference there.

I'd go with even less biscuit, no more than 8 ozs. Midnight wheat is similar to caraffa astringency wise only made with wheat.

 

[Dgallo]

I'd go with even less biscuit, no more than 8 ozs. Midnight wheat is similar to caraffa astringency wise only made with wheat.

That why I was saying a lb is plenty. People have different preferences for sure, i’d be using 3/4 of a lb of caramunich personally. Since Midnight wheat is still husked, I get that rough roast from it. Closer to 400L chocolate malt in my opinion than carafa when it comes to roast character.

 

[mschoeffler]

Cold steep the dark malts. In my opinion that is the key to a great CDA.

 

[Dgallo]

Cold steep the dark malts. In my opinion that is the key to a great CDA.

The only reason to cold steep the dark grains is if you’re not adjusting your water and ph accordingly. It does work though if you haven’t taken that step yet

 

[mschoeffler]

I respectfully disagree. The pH adjustment is nice but the steep smooths out the astringency associated with roasted malts. There’s a great article from the brewer at Deschutes that everyone should read.

 

[HockeyBoy29]

My education continues! I’m buying the ingredients today for tomorrow’s brew, so I need to settle on something. Will post my final recipe once I’ve figured it out [emoji4][emoji106]

 

[Steveruch]

That why I was saying a lb is plenty. People have different preferences for sure, i’d be using 3/4 of a lb of caramunich personally. Since Midnight wheat is still husked, I get that rough roast from it. Closer to 400L chocolate malt in my opinion than carafa when it comes to roast character.

I just double checked on the Briess website and midnight wheat is huskless.

 

[Dgallo]

You’re right, idk what grain I’m thinking of right now then

 

[HockeyBoy29]

Thank you for weighing in and helping me to learn about some of these grains that I've never used before.

That said, I abandoned ship on calling it a CDA, as the hop profile I'm looking for is going to be a little milder than your typical CDA. So I'm just calling it a Brown Ale:

Grain Bill
10 lbs Maris Otter (72.7%)
1 lbs Biscuit (7.3%)
1 lbs Crystal 60 (7.3%)
1 lbs Malted Rye (7.3%)
12 oz Carafa III (5.5%)

60 minute BIAB full volume mash @152f

Hops
1 oz Cascade @ 60
1 oz EKG @ 15
1 oz EKG for 10 minute whirlpool
.2 oz Motueka 10 minute whirlpool (just using this up, last of bag)

 

[HockeyBoy29]

Made it this morning, I may have underestimated my boil-off rate as I ended at 6 gallons of 1.073 instead of the 6.5 gallons of 1.068 I was looking for. Airlock activity is already starting on the yeast cake left behind from the SMaSH Pale Ale I kegged while this was boiling.

 

[Dgallo]

Made it this morning, I may have underestimated my boil-off rate as I ended at 6 gallons of 1.073 instead of the 6.5 gallons of 1.068 I was looking for. Airlock activity is already starting on the yeast cake left behind from the SMaSH Pale Ale I kegged while this was boiling.

That’s still some good efficiency.

 

[couchsending]

In Mitch Steele’s IPA book the recipes for CDA or Black IPA are basically just an IPA grain bill with the addition of Carafa Special III (the dehusked stuff) at a rate of 2-5%. Shaun Hill and Jeff Babgy recommend Sinamar for color as well.

I personally can’t stand Maris Otter in a really hoppy beer, especially American hops. Guess I’m an outlier. English styles, porters, stouts all day.

 

[HockeyBoy29]

In Mitch Steele’s IPA book the recipes for CDA or Black IPA are basically just an IPA grain bill with the addition of Carafa Special III (the dehusked stuff) at a rate of 2-5%. Shaun Hill and Jeff Babgy recommend Sinamar for color as well.

I personally can’t stand Maris Otter in a really hoppy beer, especially American hops. Guess I’m an outlier. English styles, porters, stouts all day.

Yeah, I dumped the idea of a CDA, and instead made it a big Brown Ale with East Kent Goldings and much less hop-forward profile. I love Maris Otter in general. My revised grain bill and percentages are posted above and are a bit different from my original idea, thanks to some advice here.

 

[K_tile]

I like Briess Blackprinz for CDA @ 2% with great color, no astringency.