PicoBrew Zymatic

[jamesampm]

there's a whole lot of angry people in here.

 

[alien]

 

[rico567]

There sure are a lot of people in this thread that don't get the PicoBrew. Here's what has been mentioned so far, and maybe a bit more. A summary, if you don't care to read the list below: it ain't necessarily about you.

1. Not everyone is interested in 5 gallon batches. Some might want to do less.

2. Not everyone is interested in spending 4-6 hours in the garage RIMSing or HERMSing out a batch of beer.

3. Not everyone has the room for some of the setups seen on HBT, let alone a ROOM or a BUILDING for homebrewing.

4. The folks making PicoBrew, or BrewBot, or what we may see in future aren't necessarily marketing it to what we think of as the "normal" homebrewer.

5. Some of us (like me) have to look forward to moving and a serious downsizing in several years. I'm pretty sure my current homebrewing setup won't make the cut. So I'll have to maybe cut back to just making some cider / Apfelwein, or maybe I can have a PicoBrew and still have my homebrew? Sounds like a pretty easy choice to me.

 

[kal]

1. Not everyone is interested in 5 gallon batches. Some might want to do less.

Hell, given that it basically makes the beer for you (very little work on the part of the brewer), I don't see this a limitation that people should care about. Simply run the thing twice to get that 5 gallons.

The first half of the wort won't go sour in the few hours that it sits waiting for the second batch. Anyone worried about that can also pitch their yeast on the first batch and then add the second half when done.

Different strokes for different folks. I love the idea of all-grain brewing appliances to help foster the hobby and culture that is craft beer. It's all good.

Kal

 

[mattd2]

There sure are a lot of people in this thread that don't get the PicoBrew. Here's what has been mentioned so far, and maybe a bit more. A summary, if you don't care to read the list below: it ain't necessarily about you.

1. Not everyone is interested in 5 gallon batches. Some might want to do less.

2. Not everyone is interested in spending 4-6 hours in the garage RIMSing or HERMSing out a batch of beer.

3. Not everyone has the room for some of the setups seen on HBT, let alone a ROOM or a BUILDING for homebrewing.

4. The folks making PicoBrew, or BrewBot, or what we may see in future aren't necessarily marketing it to what we think of as the "normal" homebrewer.

5. Some of us (like me) have to look forward to moving and a serious downsizing in several years. I'm pretty sure my current homebrewing setup won't make the cut. So I'll have to maybe cut back to just making some cider / Apfelwein, or maybe I can have a PicoBrew and still have my homebrew? Sounds like a pretty easy choice to me.

A lot of people that are "hating" on the Picobrew in this thread do accept all those you listed above as valid. The biggest things that I think should be considered when looking at these gadgets are the process and how that effects the final product. I see the major issues already identified as being:
1) DMS - apparently not an issue according to Picobrew, but I would say the jury is out until the first production unit rolls out and we can get some unbias reviews.
2) Cleaning - Can it be broken down for cleaning an inspection? Picobrew say all that is needed is a rinse and a CIP cycle every once in a while... has anyone looked at the rims tube nastyness thread on HBT. Again we will have to wait to see how "clean" the inside of a picobrew is after a years worth of use
3) Wort cooling - they could of at least tried to look into this. Hell even if they supplied a IC that fitted inside a corner keg would be better than nothing... even if it was optional.

I agree that the issues you listed are pretty small, but I think they are not the major issues that I would want more information on before dropping $2k.

 

[johnsnownw]

There sure are a lot of people in this thread that don't get the PicoBrew. Here's what has been mentioned so far, and maybe a bit more. A summary, if you don't care to read the list below: it ain't necessarily about you.

1. Not everyone is interested in 5 gallon batches. Some might want to do less.

2. Not everyone is interested in spending 4-6 hours in the garage RIMSing or HERMSing out a batch of beer.

3. Not everyone has the room for some of the setups seen on HBT, let alone a ROOM or a BUILDING for homebrewing.

4. The folks making PicoBrew, or BrewBot, or what we may see in future aren't necessarily marketing it to what we think of as the "normal" homebrewer.

5. Some of us (like me) have to look forward to moving and a serious downsizing in several years. I'm pretty sure my current homebrewing setup won't make the cut. So I'll have to maybe cut back to just making some cider / Apfelwein, or maybe I can have a PicoBrew and still have my homebrew? Sounds like a pretty easy choice to me.

I'm sorry, but I can't take this seriously. Your "downsizing" includes this large appliance, and all the kegs, and temp control equipment that goes along with homebrewing?

Yeah, it's smaller than a HERMS, but it isn't small. Well, the batches are small, I guess.

Anyway, I don't care if people purchase this thing. I just want people to consider the weaknesses. If you still feel that this is worth purchasing after doing so, great! More homebrewers means the continued availability of ingredients I need.

My purpose in pointing out the weaknesses are to keep those beautiful neophyte brewers from buying into something they don't understand, and that is far more expensive than other means of getting into the hobby.

"There sure are a lot of people that don't understand the PicoBrew." Yes we do, mate. That's why we're bothering to comment.

 

[rico567]

^^^^^^

It isn't even at the delivery stage yet; I believe ALL the specific criticisms are unwarranted at this point.

 

[mattd2]

^^^^^^

It isn't even at the delivery stage yet; I believe ALL the specific criticisms are unwarranted at this point.

I wouldn't say unwarranted. For example it has been a pretty firm belief in the brewing industry that you need a good boil and good ventilation of the steam to remove DMS - all Picobrew has said is "nah, it's not a problem... honest "
I agree that noone should be saying that this thing will only make horrendous beer with the aroma and taste of cooked corn and nothing else, but it is valid to question how DMS is not an issue when they have given no information to why it wouldn't be.
Also, I just visited the picobrew website - wow there is a serious lack of information there!

 

[johnsnownw]

^^^^^^

It isn't even at the delivery stage yet; I believe ALL the specific criticisms are unwarranted at this point.

Not when they are asking people to fork over the money. The criticism is absolutely warranted when it isn't addressed.

 

[bctdi]

There sure are a lot of people in this thread that don't get the PicoBrew. Here's what has been mentioned so far, and maybe a bit more. A summary, if you don't care to read the list below: it ain't necessarily about you.

1. Not everyone is interested in 5 gallon batches. Some might want to do less.

2. Not everyone is interested in spending 4-6 hours in the garage RIMSing or HERMSing out a batch of beer.

3. Not everyone has the room for some of the setups seen on HBT, let alone a ROOM or a BUILDING for homebrewing.

4. The folks making PicoBrew, or BrewBot, or what we may see in future aren't necessarily marketing it to what we think of as the "normal" homebrewer.

5. Some of us (like me) have to look forward to moving and a serious downsizing in several years. I'm pretty sure my current homebrewing setup won't make the cut. So I'll have to maybe cut back to just making some cider / Apfelwein, or maybe I can have a PicoBrew and still have my homebrew? Sounds like a pretty easy choice to me.

This machine makes 2.5 gallons of wort. nothing more. So how much space does a small cooler mash tun and a 3 gallon pot take up compared to this machine. You could easily make a 2.5 gallon batch on a stove top, so how much "downsizing" does this machine accomplish for a 2.5 gallon batch? This machine will also need maintenance and repair at some point, not to mention that if the circuit board gets fried, you will be SOL. This thread although some tough critisizm has been put forth, has been very informative. If you care to read through it (and sort through some of the heresay)there is plenty of factual info here as well as a link to their web site where you can go to verify for yourself the limitations of this product. I think most people here "get it", but at the end of the day one will have to plunk down $1500-$2000 for a wort maker vs about $100 for a mash tun and 3 gallon pot that requires zero maintenance / repair. Yep, you can walk away during the 90 minute "boil", but that convenience will surely be offset by the mainenance you will need to do over the years of operation. Pumps, temp sensors / switches go bad. You will still need to weigh / measure out ingredients / crush grain /adjust water / clean equipment/ oxygenate the wort / make yeast starters / cool the wort / have temp control setup / ferment /check gravity/ carbonate / condition / and maintain your kegging setup if you have one. These are facts as presented by the Picobrew manufacturers as stated on their own web site.
I don't hate this product. Actually I think It's quite a nice piece of engineering, but IMO it's just not very practical as currently presented for the money. The main marketing for this as of right now is for pro brewers to make pilot batches, and for that it may be well suited.

 

[NervousDad]

This thread has gone full-on-ridiculous. Who cares what people want to do with THEIR money. If you don't like the idea of the machine, well then don't buy it. I'm pretty sure we're all adults here and being such, we can make an informed decision.

 

[TimelessCynic]

It looks really cool.

I would like to try it out and see how they designed it. I wonder how they jammed all the processes into that small size.

Something like this would be good for my wife. She would enjoy using it.

 

[bctdi]

This thread has gone full-on-ridiculous. Who cares what people want to do with THEIR money. If you don't like the idea of the machine, well then don't buy it. I'm pretty sure we're all adults here and being such, we can make an informed decision.

Well, considering that the OP asked directly "what do others think?" , then others will write what they think.. Nothing wrong with a little honest conversation about this product. I didn't see where anyone was telling anyone else what to do with their money either. You get a bunch of home brewers to agree on something, you be sure to let us know... it will be an historic event

 

[TimelessCynic]

I'm wondering now where all the yeast goes. The stuff at the bottom of the fermenter that we usually siphon above. Presumably the wort ends up in the keg. You wait for it to cool overnight and then add your yeast directly to the keg. Perhaps the out tube on their keg doesn't reach to the bottom but sits a couple inches off the bottom?

 

[BadWolfBrewing]

I heard the pzymatic is fat and it cant read good

 

[johnsnownw]

This thread has gone full-on-ridiculous. Who cares what people want to do with THEIR money. If you don't like the idea of the machine, well then don't buy it. I'm pretty sure we're all adults here and being such, we can make an informed decision.

I'm confused at what you're arguing. Pointing out inconsistencies in the machines operation, along with ancillary steps that are glossed over, is just being a responsible member of this forum. There are plenty of people getting into this craft that don't have the knowledge that veterans posses, which is a large reason this website even exists.

If you took away from this thread that anyone here is stopping people from spending money how they like, or that we have a fundamental dislike for the machines concept, then I suggest you re-read the thread...because you've clearly missed the point.

 

[mattd2]

...I don't hate this product. Actually I think It's quite a nice piece of engineering, but IMO it's just not very practical as currently presented for the money. The main marketing for this as of right now is for pro brewers to make pilot batches, and for that it may be well suited.

I agree with pretty much all you said, except that last bit. I don't see this being useful to probrewers to make pilot batches. The only use would be for eveluation of ingredients, e.g. "how does hop A and hop B work together?"

As everyone is saying, we are not hating on it just to be mean, but raising concerns that others may not have thought about. Go ahead a buy it, noone cares if you do or don't... just don't complain that you wish someone had warned you of a potential downfall if you don't end up liking it

 

[seefish]

DMS argument aside, I'll wait to hear the reviews when it comes out, but the art side of brewing really comes in the other parts of the process. I'd prefer to spend my time on the recipe formulation and proper fermentation than trying to hit a mash temperature. Of course the DMS thing could be a deathblow...we'll c :cross:

 

[BadWolfBrewing]

I've had conversations with some buddies about how to do something like this, only 'correctly' (sorry, i know that sounds *****y).

Full boil, step mashes, chilling, fermenting, etc. I'm not sure it is possible, but it makes for a neat conversation over beers, including doodles on cocktail napkins.

I'm in the camp of most on this thread, in that I like to brew. It isn't just about getting beer. I'm sure there are some who are interested in the idea, but not me.

I also question the DMS claim... seems to refute centuries of brewing experience. Bold.

 

[Bobby_M]

This is a such a classic meme here whenever someone proposes new gadget and/or process ideas...

A: I have this new thing that will be awesome and it does this and that.
B: Based on what you've presented so far, I don't think it's going to work the way you're expecting.
C: Yes, I agree.
D: Yes, I agree.
E: Yes, I agree.
F: Screw all you elitists just piling on to the poor guy. At least he's thinking outside of the box.
A: Here is my kickstarter.....
C: D: E: Facepalm
F: Horray!


Where do I stand? Extremely skeptical with a healthy dose of don't give a shiP

 

[mattd2]

This is a such a classic meme here whenever someone proposes new gadget and/or process ideas...

A: I have this new thing that will be awesome and it does this and that.
B: Based on what you've presented so far, I don't think it's going to work the way you're expecting.
C: Yes, I agree.
D: Yes, I agree.
E: Yes, I agree.
F: Screw all you elitists just piling on to the poor guy. At least he's thinking outside of the box.
A: Here is my kickstarter.....
C: D: E: Facepalm
F: Horray!


Where do I stand? Extremely skeptical with a healthy dose of don't give a shiP

I have never seen that happen with any of your products Bobby

Bobby: I have this new thing that will be awesome and it does this and that.
B: When will it be up on you website????? How much? I want it now!!!!
C: Yes, I agree.
D: Yes, I agree.
E: Yes, I agree.
F: What! I could DIY one of those for way cheaper.
Bobby: Just added it on the website.
B: C: D: E: Horray!
F: mummble... mummble... I don't have enough time (other excuss) so I'll just buy one to see how it works...

Of coarse I have never seen you expect people to shell out $2k for a product that spits in the face of all the current understandings of brewing

 

[nelsen3000]

If you have complete control over the brew process I could see myself buying this to brew 3-4 times a week and really dial in recipes!

 

[TimelessCynic]

If you have complete control over the brew process I could see myself buying this to brew 3-4 times a week and really dial in recipes!

You don't though. It seems like it is very accurate in some areas and severely deficient in others.

 

[nelsen3000]

Well thats a real shame this could have been awesome! I will still check it out but if it does not give me homebrew style control I dont know that it will work for me!

 

[bctdi]

Well thats a real shame this could have been awesome! I will still check it out but if it does not give me homebrew style control I dont know that it will work for me![/QUOTE

I would not hesitate to check into it if you are interested. There are some factual drawbacks, but those are clearly listed on the website, such as the batch size limitation, and the fact that this is simply a wort maker with no cooling ability or fermentation ability. Some of the other perceived drawbacks that some in this thread have pointed out are that it can't get rid of DMS and that since it only gets up to 208F that there is no actual boil, but those 2 things are not really proven, because we really don't know if it can't remove DMS for a fact, and we really don't know for sure that 208f wort is detrimental to brewing. So this machine may make great wort, or it may not. The jury is still out. Of course the other issues pointed out are cost and maintenance. Still a nice piece of engineering IMO.

 

[dangerbrew]

Eh, I'll wait a few years after wading through reviews and comments galore and maybe, just maybe, one will inevitably turn up for cheap on craiglist in my local area from a seller who, at one point, had deeper pockets than mine and, as it turns out, just wasn't that into the hobby and is in need of some quick cash.

Then I may consider fooling around with this thing a little. Maybe.

 

[earwig]

This thing is lame and will fail. People get into home brewing because it's fun and rewarding. Some people will buy this as a novelty item, use it twice, and then it'll be a dust collector. I mean, what is the point of this thing? It would be cheaper and easier to just buy some craft beer than to waste your time automating the process and waiting for it to ferment.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Home Brew mobile app

 

[ZenFitness]

Seems like some real angst against this thing - not sure why. I think it is a clever idea and I hope it works well.

I personally prefer the art of what I call "garage brewing" with coolers, a turkey fryer boil kettle, etc... very raw all grain brewing with as little bells and whistles as possible. Makes the whole process feel like mine, very organic, and that I'm performing every little step along the way.

From a conceptual standpoint, this PicoBrew to me is not that much different than some highly sophisticated systems that use pumps and the like (HERMS, etc.). The main difference is this is much more accessible and probably affordable.

 

[johnsnownw]

From a conceptual standpoint, this PicoBrew to me is not that much different than some highly sophisticated systems that use pumps and the like (HERMS, etc.). The main difference is this is much more accessible and probably affordable.

I think the only similarity to systems like HERMS, is that it has a pump. It's really unlike anything else...whether that is good or bad is any ones' guess at this point.

 

[jaywhy]

Did anyone here go to any of the Backer Bashes held at Picobrew in December?

 

[jbaysurfer]

This thing is lame and will fail. People get into home brewing because it's fun and rewarding. Some people will buy this as a novelty item, use it twice, and then it'll be a dust collector. I mean, what is the point of this thing? It would be cheaper and easier to just buy some craft beer than to waste your time automating the process and waiting for it to ferment.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Home Brew mobile app

LOL @ your blunt honesty. Yes, for most people it will be a very expensive breadmaker. But then again, some DO still use their breadmakers...just nobody I know.

 

[Baja_Brewer]

I, for one, am looking forward to a full on review from a qualified early adopter. (By qualified I don't mean someone saying "hey guyz, never done this b4 but I love shock top and this thing makes gr8 beer :-0!!!!")

Sorry, my cynacism is probably carrying over from other forms.

 

[Badger87]

I've been brewing for over 30 years and find it harder and harder to find the toluene to brew, especially with 2 young kids. I just lost all my brew equipment in a fire and find this solution very appealing. If it makes good beer and gives you great control over the process, why not go with it? Who cares if someone from Microsoft came up with it or if he's a millionaire. If you have a good idea and people are willing to take a risk more power to you. I think I'm going to invest my money into it. Set and forget it. I've got enough receipts to give it a run for its money.

 

[IvanBrew]

I've been brewing for over 30 years and find it harder and harder to find the toluene to brew...

I do hope that was a bad autocorrect... I don't think toluene is a commonly recognized ingredient in beer, or is that unique to the PicoBrew? lol

 

[johnsnownw]

I've been brewing for over 30 years and find it harder and harder to find the toluene to brew, especially with 2 young kids. I just lost all my brew equipment in a fire and find this solution very appealing. If it makes good beer and gives you great control over the process, why not go with it? Who cares if someone from Microsoft came up with it or if he's a millionaire. If you have a good idea and people are willing to take a risk more power to you. I think I'm going to invest my money into it. Set and forget it. I've got enough receipts to give it a run for its money.

Sorry about the fire. I also have two kids, but manage to find time to brew.

The concerns over this machine have been discussed ad nauseum over the course of this thread. If you want to spend your money on this system that's your business. However, no one gives a rats behind about who's producing it...just that it works...and it hasn't been vetted yet.

As an aside, you've certainly been brewing for a long time...and I guess you waited a while to have kids...your late 40's? Anyway, nice 2nd post in 2 years...doesn't seem suspect at all.

 

[BadWolfBrewing]

Hah, that is sort of eyebrow raising, between the 2 total posts and the timeline...

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[seefish]

Sorry about the fire. I also have two kids, but manage to find time to brew.

The concerns over this machine have been discussed ad nauseum over the course of this thread. If you want to spend your money on this system that's your business. However, no one gives a rats behind about who's producing it...just that it works...and it hasn't been vetted yet.

As an aside, you've certainly been brewing for a long time...and I guess you waited a while to have kids...your late 40's? Anyway, nice 2nd post in 2 years...doesn't seem suspect at all.

Lol, the jerk store called, and they're running out of you. Not everyone is the same dude...why so defensive and suspicious?

I don't have any kids and I am interested to see what the reviews will be when it gets out there more.

 

[johnsnownw]

Lol, the jerk store called, and they're running out of you. Not everyone is the same dude...why so defensive and suspicious?

I don't have any kids and I am interested to see what the reviews will be when it gets out there more.

You seem new to the party. This has been happening in threads all over where the Picobrew system is discussed. That is, shills are showing up and leaving comments.

 

[BadWolfBrewing]

Hey, I want to shill. Is this a paid position??? I'll start the ball rolling.

Since investing money in this product, my beers have been much more better and I got six-pack abs.

Now, to wait for the paychecks to start rolling in...

I've been reading this thread, just to see how the community reacts to this product. While there is no proof that shilling is happening, there has been some suspicious posting.

More and more, I am REALLY interested in seeing actual product reviews. If an experienced brewer has a lot of good things to say about the product and its results, I will have to rethink what I think I know about brewing. The trick will be to get a review that seems legit.

 

[TimelessCynic]

I've been brewing for over 30 years and find it harder and harder to find the toluene to brew, especially with 2 young kids.

I am more interested in the expression. 'To find the toluene....' Was this an autocorrect issue? Toluene is a great solvent. I've used it before.


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