Petrus Aged Pale Recipe?

[killsurfcity]

Surprised I couldn't find a previous thread about this via search, so here goes...
Petrus Aged Pale is one of my all-time favorite sour ales. I have a few sours under my belt with great results, so i thought it might be fun to step it up and try to recreate one of my favorites. Anyone have any idea about what might be in this?

Here's what I assume...
- Due to the origin of this beer, the base beer is probably pretty simple
- Largely composed of German pils, due to color
- Very little to no caramely malts, maybe a little Vienna?
- No real idea on hops, this is probably the most difficult bit of info to get. Probably a typical schedule
- Mash pretty low
- A clean ale yeast like Safale-05 would probably be fine to ferment the base
- 18 months in a carboy with a toasted oak dowel, and a mix of pedio, lacto, and brett

Of course, I could be wrong about a bunch of this, what do you all think?

 

[dcHokie]

Isn't the Petrus Aged Pale an Oud Bruin, albeit a paler, higher ABV version of their Oud Bruin? The OB is a 5.5% while the Pale clocks in at 7.3%. I do believe that Bavik barrel ages for 24 months.

I’d guess that a Pils based Oud Bruin recipe around 20ish IBUs using Roselare blend and oak cubes would be a good starting point.

 

[killsurfcity]

AFAIK, the Aged Pale is not classified as an Oud Bruin, but was brewed originally to blend into the Oud Bruin in small quantities to add the sour note. The tale is, that Michael Jackson tried it straight (they never sold it previously, it was only for blending) at the brewery and convinced them it was good enough to release.

If you see how pale this beer is, i don't see how anyone could confuse it with a Bruin.

 

[dcHokie]

Yeah, it certainly doesn't fit neatly into any BJCP category. I hadn't heard that anecdote about MJ, thats interesting

I've seen this take on the Pale in a few places, might help dial in the recipe/process...
Petrus, ale, Belgium beer, Belgian beer glasses, Beer Travel, Global Beer Network

 

[BryanThompson]

I've been wanting to try making one since trying it for the first time a few months ago.

 

[killsurfcity]

Interesting, if that article is to be believed, it's 100% pils (most likely). That makes it considerably easier to pin down the rest. Unfortunately, I'm not great at picking out hops by flavor. Even less so in sours. I need to have one of these and see if I can narrow it down some.
I recall the hop flavor seeming almost Pils-like, perhaps noble hops are part of the scheme, but again, just a thought.

 

[Guess42]

I'd say all pils malt mash medium to high and use the roselare blend as that's where they get their culture. I don't think the oak dowel will gain you much. Keep the IBU's in the 10-15 range maybe.

The oud bruin is the aged pale blended with an non-sour sweet brown beer that is lower gravity.

 

[dcHokie]

Not sure how reputable that piece is, but I would assume that the specific hops you use for bittering are irrelevant as long as you have the IBUs correct. After aging for 18-36 months in barrels, I'm guessing that any noticeable hop flavor is from dry hopping (maybe Styrians?) before bottling.

 

[killsurfcity]

I'd say all pils malt mash medium to high and use the roselare blend as that's where they get their culture. I don't think the oak dowel will gain you much. Keep the IBU's in the 10-15 range maybe.

Wait, i thought mashing high would give you a sweeter beer in the end? Petrus Aged Pale is very dry.
The oak dowel shouldn't gain "much" (that would be considered a flaw), it should produce just enough oak influence to replicate this style. (or that's what i've read anyway...)
How do you know they use Roselare? Not calling your bluff, just surprised anyone knows, considering how little real info is out there on the production of this beer.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

There is a recipe in wild brews.

 

[killsurfcity]

Holy hell! I have that book! (runs and grabs book)

It doesn't specify that it's Petrus, though, who else... Seems like what I'd expect.
Here it is:

- 90% Pils
- 10% Carahell

- 90 min boil
- Bittering hops only, Hallertauer, Styrian, or EKG, at 25IBU

OG: 1.057

Ferment with Roselare

Sounds close enough to me!

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

Earlier in the book they only talk about Petrus aged pale so I presume if the recipe is not direct from Bavik it is an intended replication. I'm not even sure I've seen other breweries produce the same kind of beer.

 

[killsurfcity]

Yeah, it probably didn't register when I read the book because of the name, but reading this recipe it seems pretty obvious it's for Petrus. Looking forward to trying it out.

 

[Guess42]

In the book I believe it mentions that their original culture was roselare, straight from rodenbach. Have also heard that you can get active dregs out of the bottle of petrus pale, but I would think they would pasturise to ship it.

As to the oak, most of these beers I never pick up a taste of oak, the only real missing character would be from micro-oxygenation, which if you open to sample every three or four months would probably give about the same.

I doubt you need to worry about a sweet beer as the microorganisms will chew through the remaining sugars to dry it out. I like to mash high to give them something to gnaw on.

 

[Guess42]

And due to having the site open and not refreshing I missed where my post became redundant. Sorry.

 

[killsurfcity]

Ah, thanks for the explanation. That all makes sense.

For the oxygen, I was thinking of aging it in plastic, until it got the right level of acetic character, and then racking to glass for the rest of the maturation.

 

[Guess42]

I guess that would work. Never played around with oxygenation as I hate acetic character in beers.

 

[southdenverhoo]

resurrecting an old thread: I cultured the dregs from a bottle of Petrus back in November, with about a quart of starter wort at 1.025 -1.030, drained off the "beer" and stepped it up with about another quart and a half of starter wort of the same strength (after about a month IIRC), then stuck it in a warm place (back of the liquor cabinet over the fridge) and kind of forgot about it.

Looked at it around Super Bowl and noticed the sacch had all fallen to the bottom but there was about a 3/4 inch grainy pellicle floating on the top; I say "grainy" because when shaken, a lot of granular white material releases downward but then immediately floats back up to join the pellicle. I believe this to be lacto because it is way different than the Brett B and C pellicles I've seen before when those were the only cultures I used; they are more filmy with big round bubbles pushing up from below.

I just remembered this last week and bought some grains to make a sour that is (not looking at recipe) about 85 % pils 5% munich 5 % Special B 2.5% german wheat and 2.5% aromatic. Looking for a slightly more amber colored sour pale. I stepped up the starter one last time a bit ago, with about another liter of 1.030 wort and can say that even after only 4.5 months the starter "beer" was very tart. About as tart as a Monk's Cafe I'd say; less so than a La Folie. Lost some of the grainy pellicle pouring off the "beer"; we'll see how thickly it reforms. (JUST did this, it's a murky tan liquid now, hasn't settled out at all.)

Will be out of town next weekend so won't brew this until the weekend of the 21st. May step up the starter one last time Tuesday 4/17.

I really just posted this to confirm you can harvest from a Petrus bottle, in response to one of the posts above.

 

[opteek]

I just remembered this last week and bought some grains to make a sour that is (not looking at recipe) about 85 % pils 5% munich 5 % Special B 2.5% german wheat and 2.5% aromatic. Looking for a slightly more amber colored sour pale. I stepped up the starter one last time a bit ago, with about another liter of 1.030 wort and can say that even after only 4.5 months the starter "beer" was very tart. About as tart as a Monk's Cafe I'd say; less so than a La Folie. Lost some of the grainy pellicle pouring off the "beer"; we'll see how thickly it reforms. (JUST did this, it's a murky tan liquid now, hasn't settled out at all.)

Will be out of town next weekend so won't brew this until the weekend of the 21st. May step up the starter one last time Tuesday 4/17.

I really just posted this to confirm you can harvest from a Petrus bottle, in response to one of the posts above.

Any word on how this turned out? I'm going to try cloning this brew in about a month and am wondering if culturing from dregs is viable or if I should go with the Roselare

 

[BrasseurGeorges]

Any word on how this turned out? I'm going to try cloning this brew in about a month and am wondering if culturing from dregs is viable or if I should go with the Roselare

Petrus filter and pasteurize.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f127/does-petrus-have-viable-dregs-441470/