Personal First - Dry Hopping a Cascade/Columbus APA

[Brew_G]

I'll be brewing the below recipe in the next couple weeks, and was hoping for a little feedback. This will be my first dry hopped beer, so I'm pretty curious as to how it'll turn out. I don't want to overdo it, but I do want to get a nice punch of hops out of it. I want to keep this hop schedule fairly simple, though, as I have a couple more involved beers on deck. The idea was to be a little more aggressive with the Cascade and then use the Columbus dry hop to add some depth of hop character.

Recipe Type: All Grain BIAB
Yeast: Harvested Bell's House Ale Yeast (Third Gen)
Yeast Starter: 1.5L
Batch Size: 5.25 gallons
Original Gravity: 1.057
Final Gravity: 1.011

ABV: 6.00%
IBU: 33.5
Boiling Time: 60 minutes
SRM: 7.87

Grain Bill
10 lbs Briess 2-row [92.0%]
6 oz Crystal 10L [3.4%]
6 oz Crystal 60L [3.4%]
2 oz Crystal 120L [1.2%]

Mash Schedule
60-minute mash at 152F with 1-gallon sparge

Hop Schedule
0.60 oz Columbus Pellet (12.9 AA) - 20 min [17.56]
1.50 oz Cascade Pellet (7.9 AA) - 10 min [15.90]
1.50 oz Cascade Pellet (9 AA) - 0 min
1.50 oz Cascade Pellet (9 AA) - Dryhop 5 days in primary
0.75 oz Columbus Pellet (12.9 AA) - Dryhop 5 days in primary

Primary Fermentation: 59F basement. Pitch at 67F and let temp fall until fermentation starts. Raise to 69F in aquarium heater bath after initial fermentation ends and hold for 7 days, then bump to 71F for 7 days. Cold crash at 40F for two days prior to bottling, bringing temp to 65F for bottling.

Secondary Fermentation: None

I realize it's all about personal preference, but does anyone think this hop schedule looks a little aggressive for a 1.057 beer? Would you add more or take some away - whether Cascade or Columbus - somewhere? Maybe dry hop for more than five days?

I'm also not sure if adding the C120 matters or not. I figured I'd add it for a little color, but I'm not opposed to axing it.

 

[Wobbegong]

I think what you have looks great. IMO borders on the low end of an IPA hop schedule. Not a bad thing, but it will be more IPA than APA.

Brew it. :rockin:

 

[bobbrews]

I'd do something more along the lines of this... which won't be bitter/harsh if that is what you are thinking...

10 lbs 2-row
1 lb. White Wheat
6 oz Crystal 10L
4 oz Crystal 60L
5% Corn Sugar at flameout

0.50 oz Columbus - 60 min
1.50 oz Cascade - 10 min
0.75 oz Columbus - 10 min
2.00 oz Cascade - Hopstand
0.75 oz Columbus - Hopstand
2.50 oz Cascade - Dryhop
0.75 oz Columbus - Dryhop

Harvested Bell's House Ale Yeast (Third Gen)

Pitch at 67F and keep temp within at 66-68 F until fermentation is complete. Let free rise to 69-72 F, wait 1 week, dryhop the next week, then cold crash for a week, prior to bottling, keeping temp around 70-72F for bottling/carbing. Total time in primary, including dryhop = 4 weeks.

 

[Brew_G]

I think what you have looks great. IMO borders on the low end of an IPA hop schedule. Not a bad thing, but it will be more IPA than APA.

Brew it. :rockin:

Awesome...that's exactly what I was thinking. I'm not much of an IPA person in that I don't really care for what I see as the bite that most IPAs have. I'm intentionally trying to keep the bitterness down so as not to stray (too far) into IPA territory, but I want this one to have some real hop flavor and aroma that goes above and beyond what most APAs have.

I think straddling that line between APA and IPA is where I want to be right now, so I'm glad you see this that way. A beer that I recently bottled (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/mo-centennial-pale-ale-feedback-508222/) really pushed the ABV threshold, but with fairly muted hops, so I wanted this one to push the hops while dialing back just a little on the ABV.

This is going to be my fifth batch, so I'm still feeling my way around things and trying to hone in on what I really want out of a beer and how to make it happen. Thanks for the feedback!

 

[Brew_G]

I'd do something more along the lines of this... which won't be bitter/harsh if that is what you are thinking...

10 lbs 2-row
1 lb. White Wheat
6 oz Crystal 10L
4 oz Crystal 60L
5% Corn Sugar at flameout

0.50 oz Columbus - 60 min
1.50 oz Cascade - 7 min
0.50 oz Columbus - 7 min
2.00 oz Cascade - Hopstand
0.75 oz Columbus - Hopstand
2.50 oz Cascade - Dryhop
1.00 oz Columbus - Dryhop

Harvested Bell's House Ale Yeast (Third Gen)

Pitch at 67F and keep temp within at 66-68 F until fermentation is complete. Let free rise to 69-72 F, wait 1 week, dryhop the next week, then cold crash for a week, prior to bottling, keeping temp around 70-72F for bottling/carbing. Total time in primary, including dryhop = 4 weeks.

My temp control consists of an aquarium heater and 12-gallon tub, so I've got limitations on being able to keep temps up for bottling. Best I can do is keep it at around 64F in my laundry room, since we keep our house fairly chilly in the winter. Keeping carboy temps anywhere between 60-80F is pretty easy with my setup, though.

I also thought about using wheat, but I might do that in my next beer. It helps with head retention, right? Anything else it adds?

Your hop schedule is definitely more aggressive than what I was thinking, but I'm curious about the Columbus in that I'm not totally opposed to using more than I have in the recipe right now. I just don't want to overpower the beer.

Definitely something to think about...

 

[bobbrews]

I was working on some editing after you posted, but the hop schedule is still roughly similar. See above.


You'll mostly have a blast of pleasant citrusy flavors and aromas. The perceived bitterness should be quite low considering the recipe as a whole. You'd be using 6.5 oz. of hops for the extended post-boil hopstand (140-180 F hold range) and the dryhop combined. Only 1.75 oz. of the recipe hops would actually isomerize and offer bitterness to counteract the sweetness of the wort, and of that, 1/2 oz. of Columbus at 60 min is hardly pushing things for a 5.25 gallon batch.

 

[Brew_G]

I was working on some editing after you posted, but the hop schedule is still roughly similar. See above.


You'll mostly have a blast of pleasant citrusy flavors and aromas. The perceived bitterness should be quite low considering the recipe as a whole. You'd be using 6.5 oz. of hops for the extended post-boil hopstand (140-180 F hold range) and the dryhop combined. Only 1.75 oz. of the recipe hops would actually isomerize and offer bitterness to counteract the sweetness of the wort, and of that, 1/2 oz. of Columbus at 60 min is hardly pushing things for a 5.25 gallon batch.

Damn...you've got me seriously thinking about bumping up my late additions and dry hops!

 

[kpr121]

My temp control consists of an aquarium heater and 12-gallon tub, so I've got limitations on being able to keep temps up for bottling. Best I can do is keep it at around 64F in my laundry room, since we keep our house fairly chilly in the winter. Keeping carboy temps anywhere between 60-80F is pretty easy with my setup, though.

After you finish filling (and capping!) all your bottles throw them directly in the tub and set the heater to 72?

As far as the recipe I like you hopping schedule but I would also mash a little higher to get the FG up. You don’t want to end up with hop water.

 

[Brew_G]

After you finish filling (and capping!) all your bottles throw them directly in the tub and set the heater to 72?



As far as the recipe I like you hopping schedule but I would also mash a little higher to get the FG up. You don’t want to end up with hop water.

Good idea about the mashing temp. I'm good with going a little higher. Would you suggest 154-155?

I thought about the bottle conditioning in the tub, but nixed the ice since I was concerned that it wouldn't be kosher not to have all the bottles upright. Valid concern or no?

 

[kpr121]

Yea 155 is good

I suppose you would have yeast sediment all over the inside of the bottles if they were floating around in the tub. Could you keep them upright somehow? Maybe only fill it so the bottles aren't completely submerged? (And therefore still standing)

 

[Hujo]

Don't worry about the temperature when bottle conditioning, 59 is fine! It might take a little longer to carbonate, but the hop flavor will definitely last longer.

 

[Brew_G]

Thanks, guys. I'll shoot for mash at 155 and won't worry too much about the temps for bottle conditioning (and it hasn't let me down yet).

 

[Brew_G]

Brewed this yesterday. Went well, but my hydrometer broke, so I didn't get to take an OG reading. I have a sample in the fridge right now and will test it when I pick up a new one (likely tomorrow). I made a slight change (in italics) to the hop schedule:

0.60 oz Columbus Pellet (12.9 AA) - 20 min [17.56]
1.50 oz Cascade Pellet (7.9 AA) - 10 min [15.90]
1.50 oz Cascade Pellet (9 AA) - 0 min
0.63 oz Columbus Pellet (12.9 AA) - 0 min

I'll make a slight change to the dryhop schedule based on adding in the Columbus at flameout:

1.50 oz Cascade Pellet (9 AA) - Dryhop 5 days in primary
0.62 oz Columbus Pellet (12.9 AA) - Dryhop 5 days in primary

This brings the late/dry hop addition of Columbus to 1.25 oz.

The airlock is ripping away, and it smells glorious! Still trying to decide if I should dry hop in a bag or just dump the pellets in, but I'm leaning towards the former. Good thing I have a couple weeks to change my mind a few more times!

 

[Brew_G]

Update:

Did an SG test yesterday, and gravity was down to 1.012. Sample tasted really clean and smelled quite nice. I ended up brewing with Wyeast 1272 instead of the Bell's yeast because I was getting some really buttery notes on the last two beers I brewed. They mellowed out eventually, but it took a good four weeks for them to ease up on the butteriness and I Was curious to see if a change in yeast would make a difference. Based on this sample alone, it seems like it did.

I'll be dry hopping tomorrow, and will likely bottle next Thursday/Friday. Plan is to dry hop in a hop bag with some marbles in it for weight.

 

[kombat]

Is this in a carboy or a bucket? Dry hopping in a bag in a carboy could make it difficult to remove the hop sock at the end of dry hopping. I did that once with a Pliny clone, but admitted it was a large amount of dry hops (3.75 oz). The hop sock swelled up and would not fit through the neck of the carboy. I had to rack the beer to another fermenter, then empty the hopsock inside the carboy and clean everything up.

 

[kh54s10]

Is this in a carboy or a bucket? Dry hopping in a bag in a carboy could make it difficult to remove the hop sock at the end of dry hopping. I did that once with a Pliny clone, but admitted it was a large amount of dry hops (3.75 oz). The hop sock swelled up and would not fit through the neck of the carboy. I had to rack the beer to another fermenter, then empty the hopsock inside the carboy and clean everything up.

I prefer to bag my hops. I have not used the amount as above. Maybe two or three bags. Bigger bags are best so they don't constrict the hops.

I would not lessen the amount of dry hops related to late additions. The late and dry hopping lends more to the aroma and for me the more aroma the better.

 

[bobbrews]

The easiest method is to toss the dryhops in loose and rack with a mesh bag wrapped around your siphon.

Best of both worlds with no real disadvantages unless you plan on harvesting the yeast, in which case bagging the hops (and tying the bag to the carboy neck with a string) would make it easier to accomplish this task via a cleaner yeast bed.

 

[Brew_G]

Thanks for the replies.

I have a carboy and am using pellets, and I've been wondering if it would be an issue to get the bag out. I figured I'd just rack the beer to the bottling bucket and then get the bag out of the carboy however I could when it was empty. I guess using the bag on the siphon would be a good option instead of bagging the hops. I'm not harvesting, as I make large enough starters to set some yeast aside for use in future starters.

Do I just drop the pellets in? Are there concerns about oxidation from the splashing?

 

[bobbrews]

Just drop them in, with a sanitized process, and quickly cover up again with the airlock.

The beer will have gathered a dense lager of Co2 in the empty space of the carboy. So as long as you're not exposing it to a ton of oxygen, swirling it around, or being reckless, then you should be fine.




Even when the carboy is empty, removing a swollen bag or bags of dryhops from the narrow carboy opening will be a pain in the butt. If you're not harvesting, just wrap the cane with the bag when it comes time to rack. Brewing is a lot about common sense. Think about the advantages/disadvantages for every process and select the best option for your system.

 

[Brew_G]

Thanks, bobbrews.

When you say "sanitized process," what do you mean? Not sanitize the pellets, right? I have my hops in vacuum-sealed bags (4 oz per bag) in my freezer, including the already-measured dry hops for this beer.

 

[bobbrews]

Thanks, bobbrews.

When you say "sanitized process," what do you mean? Not sanitize the pellets, right? I have my hops in vacuum-sealed bags (4 oz per bag) in my freezer, including the already-measured dry hops for this beer.

No, the hops don't need to be sanitized. Just your hands and any equipment that comes in contact with the hops or the beer. In other words, don't scratch your butt, throw the dryhops in with the same hand, and proceed to give them a stir with a spoon. Drop them in directly from the package and quickly seal the carboy. Common sense. You would be surprised how many beginner brewers don't think about the little things because they are so overwhelmed with everything.

 

[Brew_G]

No, the hops don't need to be sanitized. Just your hands and any equipment that comes in contact with the hops or the beer. In other words, don't scratch your butt, throw the dryhops in with the same hand, and proceed to give them a stir with a spoon. Drop them in directly from the package and quickly seal the carboy. Common sense. You would be surprised how many beginner brewers don't think about the little things because they are so overwhelmed with everything.

Cool. That's pretty much what I thought.

I've been adding new and/or slightly different processes to each of my batches in an attempt to both learn slowly and make better beer. Seems to be working so far because I'm currently drinking a pretty damn good Centennial APA that wasn't dry hopped.

Now I've been reading about cold crashing prior to dry hopping in order to maximize the aroma (so the oils don't cling to yeast that drops out when crashed). Not sure I feel like doing that this time. Maybe that'll be my next new process to try.

I like scratching my butt, though. I'll keep some Wet Ones on hand to clean up the stank...

 

[Brew_G]

An update on this beer:

I bottled it almost three weeks ago, and had a horrible experience in bottling it! I tried using the hop bag over my auto sipohn, but I got a ton of bubbles, so I pulled that off and went bareback. Still had some bubbles, so I was then concerned about oxidation. Luckily, at this point, it seems those concerns were unfounded. Then, when I was about 3/4 done, I adjusted my bottling bucket a bit, and when I went to fill my next bottle, the whole bucket tipped over and covered the floor in delicious, sticky beer! It was a horrible experience, but I did get a name out of it

This beer is now known as Tipping Point APA!

In any case, I popped open a chilled one last night. I'm *really* happy with how it turned out:

Aroma: Definitely has quite a bit of floral with some fruitiness, but not a ton of citrus.

Flavor: This is where the citrus comes in, although it's not over the top. The flavor is definitely grapefruit and a little pine, perhaps with a slight bit of fruitness, which is likely from having fermented the 1272 at around 68F. I'm not big on a lot of grapefruit in my beers, but this is just enough to keep it interesting and play well with the other flavors. A crisp and fairly light beer, even with over 2 oz of dry hops.

Bitterness: This is actually more bitter than the 33.5 IBUs would have you believe. Not much, but enough.

Head: Beautiful white head with very nice lacing. I wasn't overly concerned with the head when I bottled, but it turned out fantastic.

I'm going to really, really enjoy this beer. I just wish I had a few extra bombers available!