Permeate pump location

[Black_Z28]

Hello, I recently got my RO system all dialed in and realized a permeate pump might be helpful for me. Basically, I'm on a so water pressure does fluctuate and I'm feeding a 14 gallon tank. I figured a permeate pump with help decrease the time to refill the tank after consuming it for a brew day.

My question, where should I install it. I currently have a manual flush valve. I can't imagine I put it after the flush, because while flushing it would activate the pump. Before the flush would prevent me from properly flushing the RO membrane, correct? So do I tie it between the flush valve? IE, the fish valve has the two sides, one with and one with the valve which is normally closed unless I'm actively flushing the system.

So the side without the valve, I pull the short tube, and install a new tube one that feeds the pump with brine water, then the brine OUT on the pump would tie back into the other side of the flush valve setup?

Thoughts?

 

[day_trippr]

Unless you are using a pressure tank, I wonder if a permeate pump is really what you need - versus a booster pump placed between the last pre-filter and the membrane input and set to deliver the optimal pressure for membrane throughput.

I have a booster pump as my well pressure varies from 35 to 60 psi which is below the constant 70psi the pump delivers to the membrane.
I do not have a permeate pump...

Cheers!

 

[Black_Z28]

Yes sorry, I should have been a bit more descriptive. I used my phone to type the first post and it was kind hard to read what I had written.

I do have a 14 gallon pressure tank. I figured I would give the permeate pump a shot, being it's so cheap.

I feel the best option is tie into the orange tube. Right?

 

[day_trippr]

Is that your manual flush valve? The orange tube has the metering orifice inside, right?
Permeate pumps are usually powered by the brine circuit - principally the membrane "brine out" through the limiting orifice and ultimately to the drain system. So I'd hook the pump's "brine in" to the "brine out" of your membrane housing then hook the pump's "brine out" to the input of that flush valve assembly - ie: just upstream of the first tee...

Cheers!

 

[Jayjay1976]

AFAIK, permeate pumps are intended to counter the back-pressure that a storage tank puts on the membrane, which decreases the membrane efficiency.

 

[day_trippr]

Yes, I mentioned that, and apparently the OP does in fact have a 14 gallon pressure tank....

Cheers!

 

[Black_Z28]

Is that your manual flush valve? The orange tube has the metering orifice inside, right?
Permeate pumps are usually powered by the brine circuit - principally the membrane "brine out" through the limiting orifice and ultimately to the drain system. So I'd hook the pump's "brine in" to the "brine out" of your membrane housing then hook the pump's "brine out" to the input of that flush valve assembly - ie: just upstream of the first tee...

Cheers!

Correct, I'm very certain there is a metering office/filter in the orange tube. So basically cut the yellow tube before the manual flush system, brine out of the membrane to the in on the pump, out of pump to the manual flush. Kinda like my crude drawing? Imagine the yellow box is the pump, top is brine in, ect.

I guess I thought this would activate the pump each time I ran the flush. No?

 

[day_trippr]

Yes, you're correct, the permeate pump "motor" will try to operate when the manual flush valve is open or not.
The alternative would be - as you originally suggested - connecting the pump brine in/out on either side of the capillary that's tucked inside that orange tube.

Let's see if we can summon Russ @Buckeye_Hydro and see what his thoughts are

Cheers!

 

[Buckeye_Hydro]

For those with pressurized storage tanks, Permeate Pumps are absolutely fantastic. They will speed up the filling of the tank, the water in the tank will be more pure (lower TDS), and the amount of water sent to drain will decrease significantly. My water bill went down about $10 per month after I installed a P Pump on the RO at my house.

Plumbing in a permeate pump is a bit complicated, but not too bad. A picture is worth a thousand words in this case. The diagram assumes you're using a standard, rather than a high pressure auto shut off valve, however we always recommend a high pressure ASOV with a permeate pump. The flow through a high pressure ASOV will change the plumbing layout.

You'd install a manual flush valve by running a tube with valve from before the flow restrictor to the brine line out (after the permeate pump). Make sense?

Russ

 

[Buckeye_Hydro]

Also - consider using some swivel elbow fittings to help clean up the tubing runs.

 

[Ridenour64]

@Buckeye_Hydro i just ordered a similar set up so thank you for posting this picture this will be helpful. I did however just go with a standard ASOV as I was not aware of a high pressure one. Is it ok for me to use the standard?

and not to hijack the thread, but in addition to the pressure tank, I am going to run a separate line to my brew rig using a float valve so as to avoid sending water from the tank, to my brew setup and to avoid the inline post RO carbon filter. To do this, I would think all I need to do (referring to your picture) is put a check valve between the asov and the T, then a second T to the right of the check valve to make the run to my brew rig and float? Hope that makes sense.

 

[Craiginthecorn]

Brine is black, while filtered water is blue.

 

[Buckeye_Hydro]

@Buckeye_Hydro i just ordered a similar set up so thank you for posting this picture this will be helpful. I did however just go with a standard ASOV as I was not aware of a high pressure one. Is it ok for me to use the standard?

Is it ok? Yes. Is it ideal/optimized? No.

and not to hijack the thread, but in addition to the pressure tank, I am going to run a separate line to my brew rig using a float valve so as to avoid sending water from the tank, to my brew setup and to avoid the inline post RO carbon filter. To do this, I would think all I need to do (referring to your picture) is put a check valve between the asov and the T, then a second T to the right of the check valve to make the run to my brew rig and float? Hope that makes sense.

Correct!

 

[Black_Z28]

For those with pressurized storage tanks, Permeate Pumps are absolutely fantastic. They will speed up the filling of the tank, the water in the tank will be more pure (lower TDS), and the amount of water sent to drain will decrease significantly. My water bill went down about $10 per month after I installed a P Pump on the RO at my house.

Plumbing in a permeate pump is a bit complicated, but not too bad. A picture is worth a thousand words in this case. The diagram assumes you're using a standard, rather than a high pressure auto shut off valve, however we always recommend a high pressure ASOV with a permeate pump. The flow through a high pressure ASOV will change the plumbing layout.

You'd install a manual flush valve by running a tube with valve from before the flow restrictor to the brine line out (after the permeate pump). Make sense?

Russ

Hello Russ, thanks for chiming in. This is actually one of your setups that I recently purchased from you. I was going to buy the pump from you and the high pressure ASV, but I must have been viewing it on Amazon, added it to the cart, then my wife must made another order and left it in the cart. Well, guess what came in the mail? Anyways, I digress.

You might have lost me with the placement of the pump in correlation to the flush valve.

So, the orange tube is the flow restrictor, correct? Running a valve from before the floor restrictor to the line out on the pump? I'm lost.

 

[Buckeye_Hydro]

 

[Black_Z28]

So

View attachment 749942

So is the orange tubing the flow restrictor?

If so, I would just remove The orange tubing, put a small piece of extra tubing (or the elbow you linked) on the Y coming from the RO brine out, to the permeate pump in, permeate pump out, orange tubing, then to the other Y?

 

[Buckeye_Hydro]

Your flow restrictor is INSIDE the orange tube.

Not sure I follow your description. Put the flow restrictor inside the tube in the position indicated.

Russ

 

[Buckeye_Hydro]

Inside the tube to the left of the hand drawn tee

 

[Black_Z28]

Got it all installed tonight. And everything seems to be rolling away. Thanks for all your help.

A note, I'm honestly not sure what everyone's problem with the Aquatec 1000 is. Yes it ticks, but you have to actually listen for it. I'm happy so far. We'll see how it helps with efficiency to the tank once it's getting full.