Pekko Pale Ale: Feedback Request

[ayrlander]

Hi, all,
I don't normally make pale ales, and I don't normally make my own recipes. But at Homebrew Con this year, I received a pack of Pekko hops as part of the goodie bag. I would like to make something with it to emphasize the hop nature (described as floral, citrus, and mint). So I'm crafting a pale ale based on it, as I searched on here but did not find anything really using Pekko. I don't know how many hops to use or when, and was hoping for some crafting assistance.

Type: Extract
Batch size: 2 gal into the bottles (2.2 gal into the fermenter)
Estimated OG: 1.060
Estimated FG: 1.014
Estimated ABV: 6.1%
IBU: 44.3
SRM: 5.9

48 oz Extra Light DME
6 oz Crystal 20L (steeped for 20min as water gets hot)
0.25 oz Pekko Hops (15% AA), boil for 60 min (32.5 IBUs)
0.25 oz Pekko Hops (15% AA), boil for 10 min (11.8 IBUs)
0.25 oz Pekko Hops (15% AA), flameout (0.0 IBUs)
1 vial WLP001 yeast

I believe the packet I received was 1oz, but I would have to double check. So this would give me 1/4 of the packet leftover. I wasn't sure if I should add that with some of the other additions, or dry hop, or leave it out. I want something slightly hoppier than balanced (bitterness ratio is estimated to be 0.733, I want something between 0.70 and 0.75). Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

 

[m00ps]

If you only have 1oz then dont waste any of it on bittering additions. Do like 1/2oz at 15-10min and the other 1/2oz at flameout. Use anything else for 60min

 

[ayrlander]

If you only have 1oz then dont waste any of it on bittering additions. Do like 1/2oz at 15-10min and the other 1/2oz at flameout. Use anything else for 60min

Thanks! Weighed the package when I got home, it's really 2.2 oz, plus it's 15.6% AA, not 15%. Would you still recommend another neutral high-AA hop for bittering, or maybe .25oz@60min, and .50oz at 10min and flameout? I'd have to recalculate quantities based on the higher AA figure, but do the ratios seem right?

 

[rhys333]

Have you considered a more delicate beer, an American Wheat for example (60% wheat 40% pale or 100% wheat DME), to help showcase the hops a little more? If you lowered the gravity to somewhere between 1.045 and 1.050 you could safely do a 3 gallon batch with 1/2 oz Pekko additions at 10 and 0 minutes. The hops should come through nicely. I agree with m00ps that using them for bittering would be a bit of a waste.

EDIT: I just noticed its 2 oz, not 1 oz. You can easily bump up to 4 of 5 gallons with that, assuming the hops have decent aroma. I just did a 5.5 gal wheat a few weeks ago with 2 oz of late addition Columbus. You don't miss 'em.

 

[ayrlander]

Have you considered a more delicate beer, an American Wheat for example (60% wheat 40% pale or 100% wheat DME), to help showcase the hops a little more? If you lowered the gravity to somewhere between 1.045 and 1.050 you could safely do a 3 gallon batch with 1/2 oz Pekko additions at 10 and 0 minutes. The hops should come through nicely. I agree with m00ps that using them for bittering would be a bit of a waste.

EDIT: I just noticed its 2 oz, not 1 oz. You can easily bump up to 4 of 5 gallons with that, assuming the hops have decent aroma. I just did a 5.5 gal wheat a few weeks ago with 2 oz of late addition Columbus. You don't miss 'em.

Had not considered it, but that doesn't mean I'm not now.

I only have equipment for small batches, usually 2 gallon is my limit. But if I use other hops for bittering, I could perhaps stretch the Pekko out to a 2 gallon American pale ale and a 2 gallon American wheat. I've done all grain, but since this seemed like a simple grain bill, I was keeping it easy by sticking with DME. The wheat DME works really well here, and the pale ale grain bill seemed appropriate as well. I also had the thought that if I reduced the boil length, I wouldn't need the extra bittering hops; since it's all DME, 60 minutes is overkill.

So what about the following two recipes?:
Pekko American Pale Ale, 2 Gallon:
OG: 1.050
FG: 1.012
ABV: 5.1%
IBU: 41.9
SRM: 5.2

5oz Caramel 20L (steeped)
40oz Extra Light DME (20 minute boil)
0.5oz Pekko (15.6% AA), 20 minutes (41.9 IBU)
0.5oz Pekko (15.6% AA), 0 minutes (0.0 IBU)
WLP001

Pekko American Wheat, 2 Gallon:
OG: 1.052
FG: 1.014
ABV: 4.9%
IBU: 25.5
SRM: 6.4

32oz Wheat DME (20 minute boil)
8oz Extra Light DME (20 minute boil, use leftovers from above package)
0.5oz Pekko (15.6% AA), 10 minutes (25.5 IBU)
0.5oz Pekko (15.6% AA), 0 minutes (0.0 IBU)
WLP320

 

[DrummoRC]

I too went to BrewCon 2016 (dumb name) and got some of the Pekko samples also. I just brewed an ale with a few ingredients that I got as samples at the conference.

4 kg Maris Otter
1 kg Vienna
.360 kg caramel rye (a sample from the show!)
1 oz 60 Pekko
1 oz 15 Citra
7gm Nelson Savion

Mangrove Jack Yeast M44 West Coast Ale - Two packets (also a Sample from AHA) and was going to dry hop with a oz of Pekko for 3 days.

I should have just used Pekko but I love my Citra...

I am curious how the get all those favors out of one hop! I mean:

"Clean, Pleasant, floral, citrus, mint, herbal, mellow, pineapple, thyme, saaz-like cucumber, sage, touch of lemon"

Cant wait to see what it really tastes and smells like!

By the end of the conference I had collected about 6 samples of those Two oz packets they were handing out. So I was hopping it would at least be a good bittering hop if not a dull purpose hop! Time will tell.

Enjoy the day!
RC Drummond

 

[ayrlander]

I too went to BrewCon 2016 (dumb name) and got some of the Pekko samples also. I just brewed an ale with a few ingredients that I got as samples at the conference.

[snip]

I am curious how the get all those favors out of one hop! I mean:

"Clean, Pleasant, floral, citrus, mint, herbal, mellow, pineapple, thyme, saaz-like cucumber, sage, touch of lemon"

Cant wait to see what it really tastes and smells like!

By the end of the conference I had collected about 6 samples of those Two oz packets they were handing out. So I was hopping it would at least be a good bittering hop if not a dull purpose hop! Time will tell.

Your recipe sounds good! I didn't think to try to grab more packets. Pity, because I just bottled the pale ale recipe above and I think it's gonna be an awesome one. I am going to post my final recipe after it carbs up and I can try it, but the sample from the fermenter was great. Nice light hop, didn't seem overpowering or overwhelming. With that many extra packets, you should do at least one single hop beer, even if just to compare with the Pekko for bittering, Citra for aroma one.

Looking forward to making the American wheat in a week or two once I have the opportunity, but when your brew day is two hours long, it's not bad. ;-) The twenty minute boil and use of DME seems to have worked well for the style (learned from Basic Brewing, I might have to send them some as a thank you).

 

[ayrlander]

So I was able to sample the pale ale I made above. I followed that recipe, but to my shock, the FG was 1.007, not 1.012. Coupled with a slightly higher OG of about 1.055, I'm reading at about 6.3% ABV, not 5.1%. Oops.

But besides that, it made an awesome beer. The Pekko hops aren't too strong, which I like; mostly light citrus and floral. Very happy with how this turned out, and looking forward to sharing it with friends.

The American Wheat is in the fermenter now, I brewed that earlier in the week. Will report back in a few weeks once that one's ready to sample.

 

[DrummoRC]

Well I kicked the keg of Pale Ale and it was tasty! It was a mix of hops will need to do a SMASH beer with the PEKKO to really understand its flavors ...

Pekko looks like a good bitter and aroma hop for pale ales and ipa's. At least from my current experience!-)

 

[ayrlander]

I'm happier with the pale ale than the American Wheat, apparently I like a more subdued hops note in my wheat beers so if I were to tweak the recipe, I'd use a smaller flameout addition, if any; it's highly possible the 10 minute addition would leave enough flavor to satisfy me.

Out of curiosity, at the last minute I entered both into a local home-brew competition to get feedback from some BJCP judges. I don't necessarily expect them to win their categories or anything, but I hope the feedback alone will be helpful. Competition is this coming Saturday, so I'll report back in a few weeks once the score sheets are mailed to me.

 

[Sheldon]

I brewed a SMASH for our local home brew club competition using pekko hops and MO and took first place. I still have a decent amount of Pekko and I am thinking of doing a single hop single or double IPA for the spring (I have an IPA that will be kegged later this week). Looking for interesting suggestions on base and specialty grains. I do all grain brewing.

 

[ayrlander]

I brewed a SMASH for our local home brew club competition using pekko hops and MO and took first place. I still have a decent amount of Pekko and I am thinking of doing a single hop single or double IPA for the spring (I have an IPA that will be kegged later this week). Looking for interesting suggestions on base and specialty grains. I do all grain brewing.

Congrats on your first place! I entered both of these into a competition, and did poorly on both. I was told on both that they tasted underattenuated, which I don't understand since I used standard yeasts with decent amounts (one vial per 2 gallons) at slightly high temps (72F vs. 68F) and hit my FG on both. So at some point I need to figure out what underattenuated smells and tastes like....

 

[Sheldon]

Sorry to hear about you poor results. Good luck tracking the problem.

 

[brianbrinley]

I brewed a SMASH for our local home brew club competition using pekko hops and MO and took first place. I still have a decent amount of Pekko and I am thinking of doing a single hop single or double IPA for the spring (I have an IPA that will be kegged later this week). Looking for interesting suggestions on base and specialty grains. I do all grain brewing.

Congratulations on the first place! Care to share your ratios or notes on your recipe?

 

[Sheldon]

11 lb 2 oz MO
.26 oz Pekko 60 & 43 min
.51 oz 10 min
1.31 oz knock out
2.63 oz dry hop7 days
Mangrove Jack M44 yeast
5.25 gal
mashed at 150 for 75 minutes.

Thats about it.

 

[whovous]

Can we revisit this one? I'd like to know where Sheldon decided to go with his Pekko IPA, and if Ayrlander would do anything differently with his recipe. That AHA package with the banned artwork has been sitting in my fridge for far too long! How do you guys feel about Conan with this yeast?

Bonus points to anyone who adds in the Briess rye sample from AHA in Baltimore as well!

 

[DeadAirJeff]

Bonus points to anyone who adds in the Briess rye sample from AHA in Baltimore as well!

Didn't DrummoRC already do that?

4 kg Maris Otter
1 kg Vienna
.360 kg caramel rye (a sample from the show!)
1 oz 60 Pekko
1 oz 15 Citra
7gm Nelson Savion

Mangrove Jack Yeast M44 West Coast Ale - Two packets (also a Sample from AHA) and was going to dry hop with a oz of Pekko for 3 days.

 

[DeadAirJeff]

Also, on a side note - I have 8 oz of Pekko that I got in a variety pack from Yakima Valley Hops... I should probably use those soon.

I'm brewing another attempt at my Ballast Point Grunion Clone, this weekend; but maybe I'll work on something for the Pekko hops; next weekend.
☺

 

[whovous]

Hmmm, I wonder about using DrummoRC's grain percentages with Sheldon's hop schedule? Conan is what I've been using for yeast lately. Any thoughts on that?

 

[DeadAirJeff]

Hmmm, I wonder about using DrummoRC's grain percentages with Sheldon's hop schedule? Conan is what I've been using for yeast lately. Any thoughts on that?

You could absolutely do that! After all, that's why we homebrew, right? 😉

If I were doing that, though, I'd probably ditch the 60 and 43 min additions (you can replace with a 60 min of Magnum/Warrior/some other clean bittering hop) and use that .50 oz of Pekko in a 20 minute addition. Might as well get more of the flavor and not waste it to bitter... just my personal opinion.

 

[whovous]

How does this look? This is a three gallon batch, so the 2.2 oz package of Pekko should be plenty for the full brew. I have Magnum and Warrior if needed, or if someone tells me Pekko is a bad bittering hop.

Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
5 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 1 72.1 %
1 lbs 6.0 oz Vienna Malt (Briess) (3.5 SRM) Grain 2 18.0 %
12.0 oz Rye Malt (Briess) (3.7 SRM) Grain 3 9.8 %
0.26 oz Pekko [15.60 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 4 22.1 IBUs
0.26 oz Pekko [15.60 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 5 8.0 IBUs
0.58 oz Pekko [15.60 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 25.0 min Hop 6 17.1 IBUs
1.0 pkg San Diego Super Yeast (White Labs #WLP090) Yeast 7 -
1.10 oz Pekko [15.60 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 8 0.0 IBUs
Gravity, Alcohol Content and Color

Est Original Gravity: 1.062 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.015 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 6.2 %
Bitterness: 47.2 IBUs
Est Color: 5.6 SRM

 

[ayrlander]

Can we revisit this one? I'd like to know where Sheldon decided to go with his Pekko IPA, and if Ayrlander would do anything differently with his recipe. That AHA package with the banned artwork has been sitting in my fridge for far too long! How do you guys feel about Conan with this yeast?

Bonus points to anyone who adds in the Briess rye sample from AHA in Baltimore as well!

I still haven't figured out what "underattenuation" tastes like, nor do I understand why it'd show up given I hit my expected FG, so I'm not sure I'd personally change anything. I did like drinking it, but maybe I'm not sophisticated. I will mention I didn't care as much for the wheat beer with the Pekko, the pale ale worked better in my opinion, so I'd stick with APA were I to do something similar in the future.

Hmm... I didn't get a rye sample....

 

[saltymirv]

I recently bought a pound of 2015 Pekko. I want to get a feel for the hop so I built this 2.0 gallon recipe to try it out. Not sure when I'll be able to brew it, but looking forward to it

IPA (India Pekko Ale)

OG/FG: 1.066/1.011
ABV: 6.8%
SRM: 8.4
IBU: 78 (probably less)

Grains:
4lb 2-Row (80%)
8oz Munich II (10%)
4oz Victory (5%)
4oz Honey Malt (5%)

Hops:
.5oz Pekko @ 30 (53.4 IBU)
.5oz Pekko @ Steep for 20 minutes (21 IBU) - my small batch setup gets cooled in the sink, so the hops are added at flame out and remain during the slow chilling process
.25oz Pekko @ 15 minutes post flame out (~3 IBU)
1.5oz Pekko @ dry hop

Yeast:
US-05

What do you guys think? The hop amounts are about equivalent to ~3oz in the boil/whirlpool and ~3.75oz as dry hop in a 5 gallon batch. I'm hoping the Pekkos have a good flavor, otherwise it could be a waste

 

[whovous]

I still haven't figured out what "underattenuation" tastes like, nor do I understand why it'd show up given I hit my expected FG, so I'm not sure I'd personally change anything. I did like drinking it, but maybe I'm not sophisticated. I will mention I didn't care as much for the wheat beer with the Pekko, the pale ale worked better in my opinion, so I'd stick with APA were I to do something similar in the future.

Hmm... I didn't get a rye sample....

There was an empty baggie in the goodie bag with a card from Briess. I filled it at their booth. It was supposed to be an eight ounce baggie, but I managed to get twelve.

 

[whovous]

How does this look? This is a three gallon batch, so the 2.2 oz package of Pekko should be plenty for the full brew. I have Magnum and Warrior if needed, or if someone tells me Pekko is a bad bittering hop.

Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
5 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 1 72.1 %
1 lbs 6.0 oz Vienna Malt (Briess) (3.5 SRM) Grain 2 18.0 %
12.0 oz Rye Malt (Briess) (3.7 SRM) Grain 3 9.8 %
0.26 oz Pekko [15.60 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 4 22.1 IBUs
0.26 oz Pekko [15.60 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 5 8.0 IBUs
0.58 oz Pekko [15.60 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 25.0 min Hop 6 17.1 IBUs
1.0 pkg San Diego Super Yeast (White Labs #WLP090) Yeast 7 -
1.10 oz Pekko [15.60 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 8 0.0 IBUs
Gravity, Alcohol Content and Color

Est Original Gravity: 1.062 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.015 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 6.2 %
Bitterness: 47.2 IBUs
Est Color: 5.6 SRM

I wound up doing this recipe with a few small changes and corrections. The first is that the Briess Rye is actually a Caramel Rye with a Lovibond of 60. My beer is closer to brown than to amber.

Also, I used a quarter ounce of Warrior to bitter, and added the bittering Pekko to the 10-minute boil.

Most surprising was my efficiency. I've been having trouble with this lately. I think the combination of taking my Barley Crusher apart and putting it together again, combined with using steam for small batches of grain conditioning really made the difference.

I projected 65% efficiency but wound up somewhere in the mid-80s. Depending on attenuation, my ABV should be in the mid to upper 8% range, making this a totally unexpected Imperial Rye PA. The brew is starting to look pretty and clear in the Catalyst Fermenter.

 

[Sheldon]

I just did a 3.5 gal Pekko Blond using a total of 1 oz Pekko, I will dry hop with another ounce. I got about 10 oz at HB Con last spring. I brewed a Pekko Pale Ale last summer and took 1st place at local home brew club competition.

 

[aprichman]

I've had a half pound of Pekko in the freezer since October of last year. Sounds like it might be time to break them out