Partial freeze to increase ABV?

[CourtHouseBrewing]

I was wondering.
Has anyone tried to freeze the beer a bit to remove some water and increase the ABV?
Does this work?
What would you do?
Just curious.

 

[MalFet]

Sure, this is standard practice with eisbocks. I wouldn't want to freeze more delicate styles, but there's no reason it wouldn't work.

 

[CourtHouseBrewing]

Sure, this is standard practice with eisbocks. I wouldn't want to freeze more delicate styles, but there's no reason it wouldn't work.

Thanks,
I was thinking my Pilsner.

 

[kerant]

Sure, this is standard practice with eisbocks. I wouldn't want to freeze more delicate styles, but there's no reason it wouldn't work.

Curious- why would partially freezing increase the abv?

 

[matthewrozon]

Because water freezes before alcohol so by partially freezing you know that it's only the water that is frozen. Rack the remaining liquid and you've removed a portion of water this increasing the alcohol to water ratio. I think

 

[JimTheHick]

And I believe that strictly speaking it is illegal to do. But so is drinking my homebrew at a friends house....

Beware the eisbock police!

 

[PistolsAtDawn]

This is a form of fortification, and yes, Jim, I do believe that it is illegal.

But hey, nothing's illegal until you're caught!

 

[itsme6582]

Freeze distilling is NOT illegal. Using a still to produce spiritous liquors is illegal. Your ABV is potentially an issue but you need to check your state's laws about that. The American Homebrewer's association has a great summary of state laws.

 

[TheBreweryUnderground]

Not illegal: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f25/freeze-distillation-104882/

Though being illegal wouldn't stop me. Currently Cape Brewing is ice concentrating, "eisening", a Utopias clone and going for 40+%. I don't have the link available but it's totally possible, to freeze a lot off you need a very cold freezer. Brew Dog used a local ice cream factories freezer to get it cold enough for their "End of History". Personally I wouldn't eisen a pils as it is pretty delicate, dopplebocks were normally eisened 10-20% as they could handle it flavor wise, but I don't want to stop your from experimenting with it so share the results if you try.

 

[cullen]

For an example of how this technique has been used, check out http://www.brewdog.com/product/tactical-nuclear-penguin

 

[Qhrumphf]

This topic gets brought up every once in a while. If I remember the ATF/TTB regulations correctly, it's legal to remove a portion of the water so long as it "still retains the characteristics of beer". Unless you're doing something crazy like Brew Dog did with some of theirs (the lines may get blurry there, I'm not a lawyer and haven't tried any of their super strength beers to evaluate if it's still "beer" character) I'd say it's completely 100% legal. Or I could be remembering wrong.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

If you're freezing in a regular freezer you're not going to get much in the way of results. You might get a point or two in ABV out of it out of a single pass.

 

[PistolsAtDawn]

Fair enough. Glad to know that this isn't illegal. Ray Daniels said it was in Designing Great Beers, but nobody is always correct (plus that book is at least 12 years old now). If I ever have the equipment, I may have to try this.

 

[CourtHouseBrewing]

Great feedback Thanks.
It came up when I tried to quick chill some brew I wanted to show off and forgot about it till it was almost frozen solid. I wondered if the alcohol was trapped in the ice with nowhere to go to separate. So I wondered if anyone in a homebrew set up tried it and what the results where.

 

[derek81]

Wow good information here, wait who is that?.......... its the ATF!

 

[SenorPepe]

Fair enough. Glad to know that this isn't illegal. Ray Daniels said it was in Designing Great Beers, but nobody is always correct (plus that book is at least 12 years old now). If I ever have the equipment, I may have to try this.

Thank you for the citation! My mind has been on the verge of exploding wondering why the hell people bring this up in every single freeze concentration thread. At least here's one source. Cheers.

 

[CourtHouseBrewing]

Wow good information here, wait who is that?.......... its the ATF!

When I heard a guy at the door yell “Alcohol, Tobacco and firearms" I thought I had forgot an order I made and it was the UPS guy.

 

[Qhrumphf]

http://www.ttb.gov/rulings/94-3.htm

That's the final word as far as I'm concerned. So you can't remove much, but you can legally remove some.

 

[SenorPepe]

http://www.ttb.gov/rulings/94-3.htm

That's the final word as far as I'm concerned. So you can't remove much, but you can legally remove some.

Excellent. Thank you for posting. Couple questions though. First, this appears to me to relate only to licensed brewing. I don't see reference made to homebrewing, but explicit reference to commercial breweries. It seems to me that this ruling is entirely about the commercial production of concentrate, for the explicit purpose of reconstitution to the same volume later. To me it doesn't touch on the legal distinction between freeze concentrating and distilling. In other words, the "can't remove much but can remove some" has to do with the threshold beyond which your product is considered a concentrate, not with at what point it becomes illegal for a homebrewer to do it. If that makes sense...not sure if I'm reading this correctly either.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Without sifting through all of the full code, it seems to me the difference between distilling and concentrating is irrelevant, as it appears they prohibit concentration without reconstitution back to the full volume (as referenced under 25.262(3) on the second page: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2003-title27-vol1/pdf/CFR-2003-title27-vol1-part25-subpartR.pdf), with this .5% reduction being the only allowable exception (I think in this case it's so brewers don't have to label ice beers as "from concentrate"). I'd think that since homebrewers are basically allowed to do what pro brewers can do (without being able to sell but without being taxed), I'd assume the same regulations apply. Ultimately, I'd suggest either a) sifting through the entire code yourself, b) asking TTB for clarification or c) asking an attorney for more info.

 

[SenorPepe]

Very interesting. Domestic brewers certainly eisen beers though, well beyond .5% I'd think. Good read anyway. I guess I won't be such a smartass in the future.

 

[rhamilton]

If you freeze distill, can you just take a FG sample to determine the new ABV?

 

[Qhrumphf]

Like I said, I'm not a lawyer, and my knowledge of legalese is very limited. That's just my reading from the code. If someone offhand knows the link to the BBR episode where James Spencer got a direct word from TTB, that'd be great to have their exact statement. I don't recall the episode, but at the end of the day, TTB's word is the last word. With a little more searching, others are saying that according to TTB (per their statement to James Spencer) it's legal to do more than .5% as a homebrewer, and for pro brewers it's an issue of increased taxes if they wish to go further than that.

Then again, there's also this: http://beerpulse.com/2010/04/redhook-brewery-tempts-regulators-with-new-eisbock-28-beer/

 

[HangLoose]

This sounds fun. I have access to a commercial freezer (~-10f). Does anyone know how it will change the beer besides of course increasing the ABV? I can see how you would not want to hit something delicate with it but what would it do to an ipa or an apa? would it affect the hop bitterness, the maltyness? I may need to do some experiments in the name of science!

 

[Qhrumphf]

If you freeze distill, can you just take a FG sample to determine the new ABV?

I think it's a little more complicated than that. Assuming only water is removed, and no alcohol (although I'd think you'd remove SOME alcohol), a mathematical approach would be more accurate. 5% ABV at 12 oz would equal .6 fluid oz of alcohol, assuming the alcohol stays constant it would be 5.4% if reduced to 11oz. If you're removing water concentrating residual sugars/dextrins/whatever AND alcohol, I don't know how that would affect an gravity reading.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

This sounds fun. I have access to a commercial freezer (~-10f). Does anyone know how it will change the beer besides of course increasing the ABV? I can see how you would not want to hit something delicate with it but what would it do to an ipa or an apa? would it affect the hop bitterness, the maltyness? I may need to do some experiments in the name of science!

It will intensify everything. If there are off flavors, higher alcohols, minerals in the water they may rise as a factor of parts per unit and reach a flavor threshold. My only attempt at freeze concentration resulted in something that became very salty after a while.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

I think it's a little more complicated than that. Assuming only water is removed, and no alcohol (although I'd think you'd remove SOME alcohol), a mathematical approach would be more accurate. 5% ABV at 12 oz would equal .6 fluid oz of alcohol, assuming the alcohol stays constant it would be 5.4% if reduced to 11oz. If you're removing water concentrating residual sugars/dextrins/whatever AND alcohol, I don't know how that would affect an gravity reading.

Ethanol binds to water molecules but it binds to a small amount so your first attempt or two to freeze might get an extremely small amount of ethanol but it will mostly be straight water. If you try multiple passes in the freezer eventually you will start to capture more and more alcohol. The ice, when thawed, will start to taste like very watered down liquor. There's definitely a point of diminishing returns and beyond that a point where you actually start losing alcohol. I forget the reason why but if you want serious concentration you need to make one freeze at very low temperatures. For whatever the reason, you end up capturing very little ethanol.

That's not at all relevant to the point about gravity readings.