Pappy`s Pub Cider - Award Winner!

[Justwingnit]

so, the cider is pretty tasty if a bit harsh at the moment, I am planning to run 6x 1 gallon secondaries. I was just wondering how many cinnamon sticks/ gallon anyone who has tried it would recommend. (or, since cinnamon may not extract well at low temps, would it make more sense to boil a gallon of cider with a handful of cinnamon sticks, and use it to sweeten/ kick off a little more fermentation?)

It's hard to say every one has different tastes, but I put 2 sticks into 117 oz of cider and 11 oz of tennessee fire along with 10 drops of red food coloring. Making my gallon jugs of Tennessee Fire Apple Cider. It can be served cold, room temp or hot and it is soooooo good.

 

[USCG1986]

After a month of sitting with a stick and a half in each gallon, it has mellowed a lot, and has the perfect level of cinnamon without being too dry, after drinking almost a gallon I bottled the other 5 gallons, and ended up with 2 cases.

 

[USCG1986]

out of curiosity has anyone tried this with the Motts apple cherry juice?

 

[Blacksmith1]

Not yet, but I was looking at my grandsons bottle of it yesterday thinking about using it.

 

[J Trott]

5 gals of tree top apple juice (sometimes Motts if the store is out of tree top)
10 LBS table sugar (wal mart brand cheap stuff)
1 packet Lalvin EC-1118 yeast
1 tablespoon yeast nutrient (wyeast beer nutrient blend)

No rocket science here, just dump everything in the carboy and let the champagne yeast do it's thing.Primary till all bubbling of the air lock stops then wait a week.After the week is up rack to 2ndary (optional)
I used "super-kleer K.C."{kieselsol-chitosan} in 2ndary (optional) to clear the cider and the stuff is amazing.Cold crash in the freezer for an hour and bottle.

Do not attempt to drive,operate heavy machinery,or anything requiring coordination or basic motor skills after drinking this.

Cheers.

So, I made a newb mistake and didn’t account for the weight/space the sugar would take. Ended up only fitting 4 gallons of Apple Juice in the primary and have the full 10 cups of sugar in the primary along with it. It has been bubbling away for about 6 days. I was thinking about racking it to a secondary and extracting a gallon of the batch...in exchange for a fresh gallon of apple juice to try and balance things out? Any help or insight on if this is a decent idea or alternatives would be great! Thanks in advance

 

[Blacksmith1]

I'd just run it to compleation. It will probably be a bit stronger though.

 

[rdback]

...4 gallons of Apple Juice in the primary and have the full 10 cups of sugar...

10 cups or 10 lbs? If it's 10 cups, you'll be ok, if it's 10 lbs, you'll exceed 17% ABV, if the 1118 completes. Did you get a gravity reading?

 

[J Trott]

10 cups or 10 lbs? If it's 10 cups, you'll be ok, if it's 10 lbs, you'll exceed 17% ABV, if the 1118 completes. Did you get a gravity reading?

Lack of sleep w a newborn got me, wow. I only put 10 cups, not lbs. 4 gallons of Juice. This is only my second 5 gallon batch (Brandon O’s Graff is the other) and took the OG of all my small batches but this one I didn’t remember until a few days after pitching the yeast. So, opposite question... Is it too late to add sugar? Lol. Been in the primary about a week. Was going to rack to a secondary soon.

 

[rdback]

Yeah, the yeast should fire back up. But, my suggestion is not to. If you started with regular ole store apple juice, its' OG is about .050, plus .02 per cup of sugar, gets you to around 1.100. You'll end up at 10-12% ABV, depending on where it stops.

Believe it or not, I'm getting ready to make the recipe you've got cooking now. I'm calling it Pappy Light, lol. I already did the classic and it finished just about 18%. Stuff is truly rocket fuel. We found you actually need to cut it a little if you want to enjoy it before you pass out. lol.

Choice is yours -- good luck with it.

 

[J Trott]

Lol...Nice! I wouldn’t be mad at drinkable 18% but I’m in for the the “Pappy’s Light” this go round. Thank you for the info and advice! How and when are you planning on bottling? I wonder how dry it will be. The plan now is racking, stabilizing w P. Sorbate and a camden tab, then MAYBE back sweetening with apple juice concentrate to taste before bottling. I don’t have much confidence in priming and pasteurizing just yet.

 

[USCG1986]

Just started 2 new batches-

Apple Cherry-
8lbs sugar
3 gal. Apple juice
1 gal Apple Cherry
1qt pure Cherry
Sg- 1.12
1.5 packets EC-1118

Cran Apple-
12lb sugar
3lb honey
4gal Apple juice
1 gal cider (just had it laying around)
1.5 gal Cran coctail
1 gal unsweetened pure Cran juice
Sg- 1.11ish
1.5 packets EC-1118

out of curiosity, if I wanted to as more fruit flavor (like frozen cherries or cranberries) down the line, when/how would I go about doing that?

 

[bkp0477]

I made 5 gallons of this a few months ago, turned out great! Thank you for sharing. Definately want to go easy on them though they will put you on the floor!

 

[Blacksmith1]

out of curiosity has anyone tried this with the Motts apple cherry juice?

On 3/27/19 I pitched a gallon of this.

1.5 gallons Mott's apple cherry.
One gallon freeze concentrated to 1/2 gallon.
Yeast starter US-05 in half must half water pinch of nute.
1/2tsp nute.
1/2tsp pectic enzyme.
Hand full of raisins hit with immersion blender in must.
Let sit 24 hrs then pitch

We finished the last of 5 bottles last week. All I can say is next time I will make 5 or 6 gallons and not freeze concentrate any of it.

 

[Lowlander]

I decided to join this forum, specifically with a big thanks in mind for Paps. A great poster with a legendary recipe. I'd bet this thread has done more than any other single piece of information, anywhere on the internet, ever, toward encouraging people (like me) to become cider makers. I first read it about two years ago, realized it was a reachable goal, and haven't looked back since.

Over time, I've found myself going lower on the sugar (in order to chill just a bit on being too drunk, too often), but that's about it. A less-sweet product is much easier all around in the drinking process and its aftermath - for me, personally, at least - and worth looking into for anyone considering this recipe.

Great stuff. Thank you for bringing your knowledge, Pappy!!! We appreciate it.

 

[TGFV]

I decided to join this forum, specifically with a big thanks in mind for Paps. A great poster with a legendary recipe. I'd bet this thread has done more than any other single piece of information, anywhere on the internet, ever, toward encouraging people (like me) to become cider makers. I first read it about two years ago, realized it was a reachable goal, and haven't looked back since.

Over time, I've found myself going lower on the sugar (in order to chill just a bit on being too drunk, too often), but that's about it. A less-sweet product is much easier all around in the drinking process and its aftermath - for me, personally, at least - and worth looking into for anyone considering this recipe.

Great stuff. Thank you for bringing your knowledge, Pappy!!! We appreciate it.

Changing the yeast to a less alcohol tolerant strain can help with the lower AbV while also retaining the sweetness

 

[Lowlander]

Changing the yeast to a less alcohol tolerant strain can help with the lower AbV while also retaining the sweetness

That's a good idea, actually, since IME most casual ciderists prefer a sweeter product. Personally, I can't deny loving the taste of a sweeter drink - but the aftermath tends to be a bit much for me versus something dry.

I do love the 1118, though, and have yet to find something providing anywhere near the value that it does - although your suggestion sounds like a great reason to experiment more. All the way around, I feel fortunate to have discovered this thread (but sad to now notice Paps is no longer with the forum).

 

[Clueless Jones]

5 gals of tree top apple juice (sometimes Motts if the store is out of tree top)
10 LBS table sugar (wal mart brand cheap stuff)
1 packet Lalvin EC-1118 yeast
1 tablespoon yeast nutrient (wyeast beer nutrient blend)

No rocket science here, just dump everything in the carboy and let the champagne yeast do it's thing.Primary till all bubbling of the air lock stops then wait a week.After the week is up rack to 2ndary (optional)
I used "super-kleer K.C."{kieselsol-chitosan} in 2ndary (optional) to clear the cider and the stuff is amazing.Cold crash in the freezer for an hour and bottle.

Do not attempt to drive,operate heavy machinery,or anything requiring coordination or basic motor skills after drinking this.

Cheers.

Looking to brew my first cider. Have a few questions. 1.) Is this a good recipe to start with? 2.) With 10 pounds of sugar, is this stuff insanely sweet, or does something happen that makes it less sweet.

Thanks,

Clueless

 

[TGFV]

Looking to brew my first cider. Have a few questions. 1.) Is this a good recipe to start with? 2.) With 10 pounds of sugar, is this stuff insanely sweet, or does something happen that makes it less sweet.

Thanks,

Clueless

It's a different style of cider compared to what most people start with.

It's a still cider, so no carbonation, more like a sweet apple wine.

As for the sweetness, it is much sweeter than most ciders home made (which are generally dry cider for beginners) but it isn't too bad unless something happens to stall fermentation.

All of the added sugar except for a bit will ferment (which is why the AbV hits upwards of 18%) and it's just the residual sugar leaving sweetness behind.

 

[TGFV]

Looking to brew my first cider. Have a few questions. 1.) Is this a good recipe to start with? 2.) With 10 pounds of sugar, is this stuff insanely sweet, or does something happen that makes it less sweet.

Thanks,

Clueless

It's a different style of cider compared to what most people start with.

It's a still cider, so no carbonation, more like a sweet apple wine.

As for the sweetness, it is much sweeter than most ciders home made (which are generally dry cider for beginners) but it isn't too bad unless something happens to stall fermentation.

All of the added sugar except for a bit will ferment (which is why the AbV hits upwards of 18%) and it's just the residual sugar leaving sweetness behind.

 

[Clueless Jones]

Thanks for the help. Is Nottingham a decent yeast for this? How can I be sure my cider is done fermenting before I bottle it? Sorry, I'm sure the are dumb questions. Looking to make my first batch tonight and don't want to screw it up.

 

[TGFV]

Thanks for the help. Is Nottingham a decent yeast for this? How can I be sure my cider is done fermenting before I bottle it? Sorry, I'm sure the are dumb questions. Looking to make my first batch tonight and don't want to screw it up.

That would be a big no in my opinion.

Nottingham gives off flavours when the yeast is stressed (by excess alcohol content and simple sugar consumption) and this would push that yeast to the extreme. Plus it would only hit 12-13% if you are lucky and it would end up too sweet to be remotely drinkable. Like 20 sugars in your coffee too sweet.

The recommended yeast, especially for first time, is EC-118, it is a wine yeast, it's dirt cheap (can buy 5 packs for the price of one Nottingham), it has an abv limit of 18% but can reach 20 with minimal off flavours, and since it's a wine yeast it is bred to digest simple sugars.

If you want to go with the Nottingham (or other yeast) you have to scale down the sugar addition to make sure you don't go more than a few % over the abv limit, also taking into account the OG of the juice itself (a mistake I made my first 10gal batch)

 

[Lowlander]

Agreed, TGFV.

As for the questions about Apple juice mixes (cherry, cranberry, things like that): yeah, it's good, but tougher on the digestive system in my experience.

 

[Lowlander]

It's interesting how, when experimenting around with cidermaking (starting with, and thanks to, this thread - no question in my mind about that), I've found how different yeasts produce different qualities of buzz. Notty is the only other, with 1118, I've given a 10 to. Great quality, clean buzz.

But, yeah, it's much more expensive and much funkier smelling as it works. Extremely aggressive, though, judging by the packs I've tried along the way. Good stuff, Nottingham, but 1118 is the King in my opinion.

 

[AustinFromTexas]

Hey Guys, Sorry in advance for the long post

I'm attempting to make a hybrid of this recipe and and another great cider recipe from the site found here, with the intent of trying to make what I'd like to call an 'apple champagne' if it turns out how I'm imagining.

The other recipe is just as simple as Pappys only instead of adding 10lbs of sugar and fermenting it straight through, it calls for fermenting 4gals of apple juice and then adding the 5th gal when bottling to backsweeten it as well as let it carb up.

What I've done here is added 6.5lbs of sugar to 4gals of apple juice hitting an OG of 1.12. I pitched the the EC-1118 with a packet of wine yeast nutrient and have been stirring it daily to ensure the yeast is getting the oxygen it needs to keep it chugging along and I've been very good at maintaining the temperature between 19-21C.

It's now been a week and the gravity is reading 1.020(13%ABV). I've tasted a sample and you guys aren't wrong when you use the words 'rocket fuel' to describe this baby! There's still plenty of sugar in there as I get a nice sweet (almost too sweet?) apple flavor on the nose but you don't need a refined palate to discern the alcohol hitting your throat on the finish.

My initial plan is to let it dry out all the way to 1.000 (which should leave me with 4 gals of 15-16%ABV) and then let it rest a week or 2 to let some of the 'hot alcohol' flavors mellow out before backsweetening it, resulting in a nice bubbly cider of roughly 12-13%ABV ("apple champagne!") However after tasting it just now I'm beginning to question if I overshot my OG as its still really sweet and I'm beginning to wonder if this thing is going to dry out below 1.000, potentially exhausting my yeast while waiting for the 'hot alcohol' flavors to mellow? My fear is that I can still add my 5th gallon at bottling but all I'll get is the sweetening but none of the bubbly(edit: NOT "apple champagne")

I'm now wondering if I should just go ahead and backsweeten and bottle the moment the gravity reaches 1.000 to ensure I get my bubbles. Does anyone think that the sweetness of the 5th gallon will help offset/mask the 'hot alcohol' flavors already present in the cider if I bottle early or should I keep the faith and wait 2 more weeks to bottle, hoping I'll still get my desired bubbly?

 

[A-man]

I'm now wondering if I should just go ahead and backsweeten and bottle the moment the gravity reaches 1.000 to ensure I get my bubbles. Does anyone think that the sweetness of the 5th gallon will help offset/mask the 'hot alcohol' flavors already present in the cider if I bottle early or should I keep the faith and wait 2 more weeks to bottle, hoping I'll still get my desired bubbly?

You mentioned adding yeast nutrient at the beginning but not ongoing during fermentation. I would try adding a bit of Fermaid K and Fermaid O together to your must and see if you can get fermentation restarted, aerate a bit as well, and let it go all the way to 1.000 or lower prior to adding anymore juice. There are calculators for this all over the internet as far as how much.

 

[A-man]

Double post

 

[AustinFromTexas]

You mentioned adding yeast nutrient at the beginning but not ongoing during fermentation. I would try adding a bit of Fermaid K and Fermaid O together to your must and see if you can get fermentation restarted, aerate a bit as well, and let it go all the way to 1.000 or lower prior to adding anymore juice. There are calculators for this all over the internet as far as how much.

My fermentation seems to have stalled at 1.010, which is just over 14%ABV. Is it as simple as adding a but of nutrient to get it back going? What if the yeast are exhausted, should I consider repitching to reach 1.000 and ensuring the carbonation when I backsweeten?

EDIT: I've been looking fermaid up online, can't seem to find it anywhere avaialble here in Ireland. Any other suggestions for nutrients, maybe another packet of what I pitched originally?

 

[A-man]

Yes I would repitch whatever is available to you for yeast nutrient and give the must a stir and see if it will restart after a day or so.

 

[AustinFromTexas]

Yes I would repitch whatever is available to you for yeast nutrient and give the must a stir and see if it will restart after a day or so.

Thanks A-man for the advice. I didn't have any nutrient or extra yeast to hand, was going to order some of both today but in the meantime I gave the must a stir and removed the airlock. Just overnight I've seen the gravity drop from 1.012 to 1.006 so I think this yeast (and particularly this specific fermentation) is happiest when it just has access to air! At this rate I'd sat it'll def hit below 1.000 in next day or two

Ferm has been going for 2 weeks now (with a couple of stalls due to adding the airlock) so realistically my yeast have been effectively working about 1.5 weeks. I'll let this one sit in primary for another week, then backsweeten and bottle it up. Hoping there's enough action left in the yeast by then to give me that characteristic champagne 'bite' from the fizz

FWIW I got some advice off Yooper on a separate thread who said that yeast won't eat nutrients after 9%ABV so I guess I'm just really happy that the fermentation jumped right back into action with just a simple stir and covering with a towel. What a hearty yeast this is to simply restart with a bang after sitting dormant for a few days with nothing more than a little stir (2 times in the same ferm!)

TLR: From my experience with this fermentation I think my new method when working with EC-1118 will be to simply ditch the airlock altogether and stir daily to aerate until gravity reaches <=1.000

 

[cidergoats]

That would be a big no in my opinion.

Nottingham gives off flavours when the yeast is stressed (by excess alcohol content and simple sugar consumption) and this would push that yeast to the extreme. Plus it would only hit 12-13% if you are lucky and it would end up too sweet to be remotely drinkable. Like 20 sugars in your coffee too sweet.

The recommended yeast, especially for first time, is EC-118, it is a wine yeast, it's dirt cheap (can buy 5 packs for the price of one Nottingham), it has an abv limit of 18% but can reach 20 with minimal off flavours, and since it's a wine yeast it is bred to digest simple sugars.

If you want to go with the Nottingham (or other yeast) you have to scale down the sugar addition to make sure you don't go more than a few % over the abv limit, also taking into account the OG of the juice itself (a mistake I made my first 10gal batch)

Not sure I'd agree with EC-1118 being the "recommended" yeast. If you're looking for a fast and furious ferment then yeah, but it is really aggressive and you can end up with a bland, albeit high-test (rocket fuel), final product. That's not to say I haven't had any good batches with it, just depends on what end result you're looking for. K1 should give you an ABV comparable to EC-1118 but with less risk of stripping the apple flavor. Just my experience, your mileage may vary...

 

[Lowlander]

Wow, AfromT, bet it'll be good drinkin' just the same. Please don't forget to update us!

And interesting post from cidergoats, as well. Thank you, I'll have to look into that.

 

[gbbeer]

I scaled this down to make a one gallon batch with minimal tweaks. Fermented for a full month and bottled this morning. ABV is slightly above 14%. I'll let the batch sit for a few weeks before refrigerating. A prior batch I made became better with age, as many of you have mentioned. It's easier to leave these in a dark place out of sight to forget about for a while... at least, until impatience strikes.

 

[AustinFromTexas]

Wow, AfromT, bet it'll be good drinkin' just the same. Please don't forget to update us!

And interesting post from cidergoats, as well. Thank you, I'll have to look into that.

Lowlander I know it's a bit a late to be updating on this but I have to say that I was successful in getting my FG down to 0.998 before backsweetening and still achieved a decent fizz after 2-3 days in the bottle!

Only issue is the LHBS sold me 750ml beer bottles (again- my idea was an apple Champaign) and their site specified these these larger bottles would still fit the standard 330ml/500ml bottle caps I'm used to so I didn't bother ordering the larger caps that actually fit the larger bottles... Come bottle day I had to think outside the box and fill up a bunch of plastic, single use water bottles and tighten the plactic caps on as tightly as I could.

Luckily I prepared this for T-Day so I cracked them open after 3 days of conditioning to shareat dinner to rave reviews. Perfect balance between sweet and dry with a lovely fizzy bite. However as weeks went by my leftover bottles slowly flattened out and became dryer and dryer. I assume this is due to the bottles themselves not being airtight so it was a combination of escaped co2 as well as regular O2 leaking in that caused further fermentation so by my final bottles they were quite bone dry but hey I'd only need 1 + 1/2 bottles before bed to successfully unwind and sleep like a baby through the night

I suspect if I'd had the matching cap/bottle sizes to bottle it up properly I'd have had my beautiful sparkling apple wine through to the end but not sure if I'll attempt that again until next Oct.

As for today though I'll be brewing this batch up again exactly as prescribed by good ol' pappy seeing as I'm not interested in the fizz this time around- just another 40 bottles of tasty high ABV cider that costs me less than 30quid to make

 

[AustinFromTexas]

As noted above, just brewed this exactly as Pappy prescribed. As I live in Ireland I had to do some conversion over to the metric system so my batch is 21L juice with 5kg table sugar added. (Measurements aren't 100% but hey, who doesn't like rounding up when it comes booze?)L

Shook up each carton of juice good and plenty to ensure enough aeration went into the must, then added in my pectolase, yeast nutrient and ec-1118!

Looks like the hydro has settled on 1.120 quite confidently

Like with my last batch I don't plan on using an airlock at all- using one only seemed to stall the fermentation as it seems with a gravity this high the yeasties absolutely NEED their oxygen intake to keep em going strong and stready.

Keeping a towel over the bung and will be generously stirring morning/night with daily gravity + temp readings to check progress.

Can't wait to try this rocket fuel as intended!

 

[Lowlander]

Austin, I stopped using airlocks as well! We should call ourselves Team Oxygen High Test, from now on.

 

[treacheroustexan]

I’m going to make a few gallons of this. Probably scale down to 2 gallons or so that way I can fit everything in my swing tops. Very excited!

 

[Blacksmith1]

out of curiosity has anyone tried this with the Motts apple cherry juice?

Not yet, but I was looking at my grandsons bottle of it yesterday thinking about using it.

So I have now done this several times and it works great. The wife really likes it too.

 

[James0816]

Hey guys, not sure I saw this mentioned before as I'm still reading through this whole thread again. I just made another batch of this (or should say it is fermenting now). For the sugar, do you shake it up to dissolve it or just let it sit? I wound up shaking it up and pretty much all dissolved. The ferment is going crazy and it's not even in day one yet. Just wanna make sure about that part. Thanks kindly

 

[AustinFromTexas]

Hey guys, not sure I saw this mentioned before as I'm still reading through this whole thread again. I just made another batch of this (or should say it is fermenting now). For the sugar, do you shake it up to dissolve it or just let it sit? I wound up shaking it up and pretty much all dissolved. The ferment is going crazy and it's not even in day one yet. Just wanna make sure about that part. Thanks kindly

[Edit for grammar]
I always stir the sugar in until it dissolves, figure having the sugar in suspension along with the yeast only makes their job easier and therefore a cleaner and quicker fermentation.

As for the rapid onset of a vigorous fermentation, welcome to one of the many joys of using the beast of the yeast that is EC-1117!
As you can see in my most recent post in this thread I don't even use an airlock with this brew as yeasties need all the oxygen they can get... So don't just stir to dissolve at the start. Giving a generous stir daily (with a sanitized spoon obvz) to help aerate your cider will allow you achieve your FG within 7 days (or less)!

Good luck having the discipline to not 'taste test' this one daily while stirring

 

[James0816]

As for the rapid onset of a vigorous fermentation, welcome to one of the many joys of using the beast of the yeast that is EC-1117!

Yeah, I've worked with EC1118 before. First time it has ever taken off this fast though I must say. =)